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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 7:22:30 PM
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Z1's I dont know.
Maybe a special class independant of the P5 could be created for them if there is demonstarted interest. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 9:41:15 PM
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Gee, Does that mean my kwak is illegal. I have been racing it for 18 months in p5 and I thought it was legal.
John you should just petition MA for a rule change. I think you would help them greatly at the moment on the J Model. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 9:57:06 PM
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| I dont know, perhaps if there is support for them we can create something, but I need demonstrated support. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 10:00:02 PM
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not to mention Guesty's Z1R  ,pretty prominent at last years nats too eh?, |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2007 : 10:21:11 PM
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Ooops - Brain fade - Sorry, Z1s are legal!!!! - it must have been that Katana thing 
I was only watching the 125s! |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2007 : 09:16:47 AM
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Dont forget I reckon solos are just engine storage frames for sidecars.
I am not full bottle on all the ins and outs. But I am surprised the Kwaka Z9 are not anywhere to be seen. But thsi topic is about encouraging Historic Superbikes, can we keep that story rolling? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 1:22:10 PM
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| Hi John, I like this idea. How about overlooking the period 4, period 5 classifications and calling it something else and making it open to any aircooled "superbike" or unlimited bike that has a tubular frame, twin shocks, non floating front brakes and conventional external slider front forks? This can probably be simplified further and would impose its own cut off date by design rather than by year. If I can do anything to help give me a call. Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 2:19:13 PM
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Interesting concept.
Lets play, but the bottom line is are the riders actually interested? All I hear is silence.
The sidecar blokes pulled their fingers out and lifted fields from 3-4 to 20 and yet the solo fields jsut stay thesame.
The sidecar blokes actually got out there and rang around and supported newcomers etc, maybe a similairt thing neds to happen with this proposal, but I think it needs the riders to show the interest now and get on the phones. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 2:52:00 PM
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Hooray for John Feakes. He has hit on the idea we need. Make the design dictate the limits. We just need to be sure that air cooling is air cooling, not oil cooling.
We might also need to take into account the water cooled two strokes (a la the TZs etc).
As for rider support, there has been a lot of talk about the lack of clarity of the rules, the cost (its just cheaper and easier to run modern bikes)and the way meetings are run generally. A lot of blokes have just put the bikes away because the combined fields needed to get the numbers have disadvantaged many so they don't bother. On top of that when races are billed as handicaps and then changed at the last minute, morale starts to decline.
Speaking to a couple of New South Welshmen and Victorians who travel to NSW at Winton at the 2+4 meeting, they were full of praise for the way the PCRA have got the numbers up and the way the meetings are run. Maybe we need to look over the border, why are their numbers increasing?
Maybe they have taken period 6 seriously and taken the pressure off period 5 by doing so. The effect of period 6 is in clarifying the rules and allowing bikes that are easier to run in terms of cost and no maintenance. The other big spin off is in encouraging an interest by younger generations in the older more difficult bikes. Perhaps its time to look at "new era" in a different way, as the introduction class to the "real bikes" rather than something to be scorned by ever more complex rules to exclude their encroachment onto the hallowed turf of the existing period formulas.
Until these kind of fundamental issues are dealt with the silence will remain deafening. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 3:19:10 PM
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| Please come on board the committee in Vic. and help improve things, you will be made most welcome. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 10:42:29 AM
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| No problems with watercooled 2 strokes, Scotts were watercooled 70 years ago. But would any 2 strokes turn up? Those that would qualify seem to be like the proverbial hen's teeth. Where are the riders? Where are the bikes? (See my post in "Remember When"). Come on, let's at least go down trying. Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 3:47:30 PM
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| Thanks for the invite John, where and when? I'll try and be there. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 4:24:58 PM
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| QWe are changing our meeting room at the moment, but ifyou want to come to my shop or even join the historic man. committee where we meet at MV, Clifton Hill. Perhaps call me on 03 9888 4387 and chat first, I am keen to get a better idea of you idea. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2007 : 6:54:23 PM
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| I will call tomorrow |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2007 : 7:31:41 PM
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John, thanks for the chat tonight, I am glad of the information. I was reflecting tonight and think you should provide a bit of background on the topic of period 6 racing in Victoria to all of us. I think our discussion was very enlightening and shows the difficulties organisers of events must confront. It should not just be for my ears though.
Once again, thanks for your time.
PB |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2007 : 11:03:55 PM
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Ok I am enthused again at the moment. I have been talking with a friend who has drawn my attension to the following facts;
-The superbikes can be built with existing technology
-There are plenty of donor bikes
- Many riders may actually have their old superbikes in the shed.
So can readers help me work out who may have such beasts so we can talk with them.
Or do you have an idea that may just help get this proposal up and going. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 7:10:43 PM
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Z1's are fine for P5 racing, its P4 that they are not eligible for (despite being *techically* eligible with a release date of August 1972) - they were banned from P4 right from the word go.
There is a P5 superbike currently being raced in PCRA, the old Moriwaki Kawasaki of Roger Quinlan. It still goes well for an old girl .....
What would be nice is to see the old 'Syndicate' Kawasaki being used again. |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 7:17:04 PM
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Gosling, apart from prayer, is there anything you can do or think of to help promote the series.
Seriously Z1 topics should not be here, can we stay on topic by starting another if required to cover it. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 14 Jun 2007 8:02:57 PM |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 8:02:31 PM
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What you need to do is get this idea out to all the clubs that already have the bikes you are looking for. PCRA in NSW, PCRA NZ and ??? in Vic. Qld are basically up the spout, they have no racetracks at all, due to an ongoing debacle with the owner of the Paperclip.
I still think the series is a great idea, and promise not to post any more stuff about the Z1..... |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 9:01:58 PM
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Do you have contact details for PCRA in NZ?
I do drop info on the PCRA site, and I am in contact with Hartwell and Preston in Vic. so things are covered it is just hard to get the idea rolling, since ridewrs seem to want to wait until they see something happening before they commit. But having set things up, I plan to try and ensure the early birds are rewarded for supporting it.
Thanks for the tip about those zeds. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 9:12:12 PM
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there are a couple of regular contributors to the PCRA site that are Kiwis, I will bung a post up for them to contact you via this site. They are a great bunch, I met a couple of them at the Island Classic this year...
as a matter of interest, the NZ PCRA cut-off for Period 5 is December 1982.
cheers
Dave |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2007 : 9:45:22 PM
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I am aware of the different cut off dates, what I dont understand is how come every body has different dates. But I am not goingto try and find out why, it may be too hard.
But lets just work to get 'our' series going please. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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mboddy
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
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26 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2007 : 07:33:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by OldKwak
the cost (its just cheaper and easier to run modern bikes)
The effect of period 6 is in clarifying the rules and allowing bikes that are easier to run in terms of cost and no maintenance.
What do you think that the proposed methanol for Period 5 Rule is going to do to Period 5?
I think that it will push more riders from Period 5 into New Era.
Please see this thread and let MA know what you think about this issue:
You must be logged in to see this link.
If you do not wish to post your reply on the PCRA forum then please use thread: You must be logged in to see this link. |
Edited by - mboddy on 18 Jun 2007 07:40:16 AM |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2007 : 9:58:28 PM
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quote:
....... But lets just work to get 'our' series going please.
Mate, I have been checking the PCRA forums, and the bloke you need to speak to is 'twinshock', he is the big kohuna over in UnZud for the type of series you are trying to get off the ground. Just don't mention Methanol eh ??
cheers
Dave
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".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2007 : 09:33:46 AM
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John, Your question:
'So can readers help me work out who may have such beasts so we can talk with them.
Or do you have an idea that may just help get this proposal up and going.'
I believe Gregg Johnson has the old Syndicate Z900, just short of funds. He would be worth supporting by sponsors if only just to get the class up and going!
If the formula is specifed by TYPES of machine rather than cutoff date or period, that would be good. If watercooled two strokes are allowed, anyone with a good TZ750 could win a few races until the spares ran out! I believe the class should be limited to to aircooled four strokes, and watercooled (and aircooled) twostrokes should be allowed. I wouldn't worry about fork, brake or suspension considerations. What will end up racing (the good stuff)will look like 70s European endurance racers. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2007 : 09:41:32 AM
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| I am not sure the two strokes ran in the superbike series, can that be clarified. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 08:20:58 AM
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Are we trying to recreate a bit of history or trying to create a series which is reasonably inexpensive, which encourages maintenance and development of the type of bikes that existed in the 70s/80s, and provide a high entertainment, fun sport for a lot of guys who love old bikes?
If it's the former, we should run the old Swann Series, or Castrol Six Hour again using highly restricted/specified bikes. I don't believe that's achievable!
You guys well know what's competitive with what. I don't believe there 'll be any easy wins if we get the formula right. I don't believe we should try to recreate history with this series. Let's get a good, fair, interesting competiton going this time - something worth televising that'll get us world wide scrutiny, and something that's in keeping with the notion of historic/nostalgia. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 6:52:16 PM
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Alan C - I think its Andrew Johnson that has the old Syndicate machine, I am *99%* sure he was the rider back in the early 80's.... what a machine !! 169hp at the countershaft sprocket - nice.........
If you allow free suspension, brakes etc, it will take away a lot of what the old Superbikes were about - ie. take a crap-handling big Jap 4, put a great engine in it, and wobble your way to victory with your heart in your mouth !! Thats what I remember from the 70's anyway ! Otherwise, you will have people rocking in with front suspension and brakes from a 2006 ZX10R, and this might just take away some of the *vintage* look/feel from the class.......suspension and brakes should be era-specific.
The following bikes raced in the 1981 6-Hour (just for a quick snapshot...):
six GSX1100, three XS1100, six GSX750, eight XJ750, two Z750, 2 Ducati Pantahs, one Ducati 750SS, one CBX1000, one CB900FA, one BMW R100CS and one GPZ1100. This race was legendary for 'tyre eligibility' problems !! GSX1100's filled 3 of the first 4 places.....
I'll dig up some references to the superbike series entrants from that period in the next couple of nights..
cheers
Dave |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 7:44:09 PM
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Dave, I sort of feel that some attributes of 70s superbikes might be overtaken by technology, in the interests of safety. If you remember when Mick Hone and Alan Decker were at the top on Z900s, Jim Eade brought the SFC Laverda 750 to Phillip Island and creamed them. It was straight out of the crate, jetted for alcohol, and with the good young rider did the trick easily. I can't remember the rider's name, however he's been down here from NSW riding a 500cc Rudge, in recent times. He's quite a bit older now, but still a good goer!
The point is, not all the old bikes had rubber frames, and if we're going to be safe, we should probably allow limited improvement. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 7:48:04 PM
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| About the Syndicate Z900. As I said before, it'd be worth finding a sponsor and get Gregg Johnson a ride. It'd really get Historic Superbikes up and going - give Robbie Phillis a thrill too! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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