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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Sep 2007 : 10:53:31 PM
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| I reckon '74 |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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Rosko
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
13 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2007 : 7:50:56 PM
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Chesterfield Series was July 1, 1973 -- Max Robinson cleaned up. Last round was Dec 2. Willing won round, but Len Atlee won Series on a Norton 850. I do recall that year that Thommo tried to race a poorly disguised Yamaha TR!
Thommo won the 1974 series on Kawasaki Lots of rumours about the fuel! Last round was December. At the same time the Pan Pacific series was run at Oran Park between USA NZ And Aus it was through this the yanks saw the Sperbike series we were running and took the idea home. Details courtesy of Don Cox
Rosko |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 9:44:14 PM
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Wish I could post some pictures on this forum......
The very first Pan Pacific series was run in 1972, on 26 November at Oran Park. This meeting was Round 1 of the series, and featured the following riders / bikes:
Don Emde - Harley Davidson 750
Ginger Molloy - Kawasaki 500
Ron Grant - Suzuki 750
Cliff Carr - Kawasaki 750
Sonny Soh - Suzuki 500
Eric Hinton - Yamaha 350
Rob Hinton - Yamaha 350
Mike Steel - Suzuki 500
John Warrian - Suzuki 500
Ross Barelli - Suzuki 500
Les Kenny - Yamaha 348
Gordon Doble - Yamaha 350
Phil O'Brien - Suzuki 500
Clive Knight - Collins-Yamaha 350
Bill Dillow - Yamaha 350
Bryan Hindle - Yamaha 350
Tony Hatton - Yamaha 346
Rob Madden - Yamaha 350
Ron Toombs - Matchless 496
Bill Burnett - Kawasaki 498
Gary Thomas - Yamaha 350
Keo Madden - Yamaha 350
Allen Hales - Suzuki 492
Sid Lawrence - Yamaha 348
Laurie Turnbull - Yamaha 350.
These capacities and riders are taken from the actual Race Program for Oran Park for Round 1. The other 2 rounds planned for this inaugural International Series were Calder Raceway on December 3, and Wanneroo Park on December 17. I will try and find some good race reports on these meetings, as well as this Oran Park meeting.
It would be great to be able to simply scan these articles and post them up for all to see - Can this be done oh Webmasters ??
cheers
Dave |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 9:46:20 PM
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I forgot to add the placings !!
Winner - Bryan Hindle
2nd - Ron Grant
3rd - Cliff Carr |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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Rosko
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
13 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2007 : 10:18:58 PM
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Good work Dave some great names from the past.
I was involved at the time with the a grade riders association all the above Aussies were members. I was the secretary, this series was ground breaking as American riders didnt go anywhere much.Even Kenny Roberts was only riding flat track. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 09:39:51 AM
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Rosko, can you give us some accurate detaisl about the requirements to race, stock equipment, allowable changes, number plate size and design etc so when we get the replicas going they look correct.
As I think I have stated earlier, the plan I thought of was to celebrate the original Superbikes by replicating the "look" so when we invite people to see"Historic Superbikes' they get to see the real thing. I am concerned we may get modern interpretations trying to pretend they are "Historic". It is for that reason I am proposing that bikes claiming to be Historic Superbikes will need to be approved by the sub committee I get together so we dont just have P5 solso flying around instead of representative machines racing around as P5 solos.
Does it read clearly? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 8:22:28 PM
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| I have the idea that Don Emde brought the XR750 Harley to Australia at the same time Cliff Carr and Ron Grant were here for that 1972 meeting. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 8:30:16 PM
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| John, I seem to remember that in the early 70s the number plate colours were golden yellow for all bikes above 350cc capacity. I believe the red plates came in after about 1978, and that's about when the square number plates started being used. If you have a look at the video 'six hours in history' that I sent you, you might get more clues. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 9:19:55 PM
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Fellas I need clarification.
I am informed that the two meetings detailed so far in fact did not promote Superbikes. The Pan Pacific meetings were based around 'pukka ' racing machines and the Castrol 6 hour was for Production bikes.
Superbikes were "Improved Touring' machines.
I am worried the waters are being muddied.
Can I get feedback please? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 9:23:55 PM
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| Can anybody give me a set of the rules for the NGK Superbike series and the Western Underwriters Superbike series from the '70's please? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Rosko
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
13 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2007 : 10:19:50 PM
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Hello guys sorry for the delay.
Firstly i am putting somthing together for you tomorrow John i will send you pics if you give me an email address with all the rules i can remember.
All plates in the 70's were yellow with black numbers for all classes, early they were oval then later square.
The only Superbike races at all were Chesterfield series pan pacific was unlimited and the yanks bikes were daytona 750cc rules no dedicated superbike races. later other series like NGK superbike series started at oran Park the rest is history.
I was lucky to be involved with it all. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 1:09:50 PM
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I believe the 'superbike' name was a late 70s thing. In the early seventies the races were for racing machines (mainly converted road bikes in C grade, TZs in A&B Grade) and production races. The problems occurred when C graders started racing their regular racers in production races. After 1973 the Z900s were around and that's when the likes of Decker and Hone and Crawfords were up there in Vic, on slightly modified bikes. The Superbike thing really took off with the Castrol Six Hour, and the controls on cheating were extreme.
I'd advise against trying to recreate the racing of the Six Hour, it'd be unrealistice. You probably need to achieve a balanced approach on what mods you'll allow. Personally I suggest that the 'silhouette' restriction, and a limit on the number of gears (5 max) need to be in place. I understand that GPZ900R internals will fit into a Z900, and Suzuki GSX1100s will probably also accomodate a later 6 speed box. I wouldn't be too concerned about internal mods to engines. If you're going to allow two strokes to run - no chambers and no power valves!!
If you want to get a bit of accuracy, talk to Mick Hone and Robbie Phillis, bearing in mind they'll probably be competing in the series. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 1:15:35 PM
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| I can't remember seeing square number plates that were yellow on superbikes over 500cc- only red ones |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Rosko
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
13 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 1:21:33 PM
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Hi actrol,
yes you are mainly right however the rules where Silohouette, all engine castings same, carb change ok, wheel change ok, brakes stock except pads, CR gearbox ok, Tyre change slicks ok, exhaust change ok no mufflers at first but that changed later. these rules were made from day one and stayed for a long time, yes Mick would know i supplied the parts for his Gs1000 and built the first Z1 ridden by Graeme Crosby. |
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Rosko
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
13 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 1:24:33 PM
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| oops sorry Actrel. All number plates for all models used to be yello with black numbers, i cant remember when that changed |
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Rosko
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
13 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 3:07:25 PM
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| Sorry I forgot frame details. Frame modifications were accepted as long as the original frame was used, Swing arm and shocks could be replaced. On the Z1 we changed the head angle. I sat in on the making of the original rules and as far as I can remember present were Myself, Bob Levy, Chris Peckam & Vince Tessarero there was others but I can’t remember. For the Record Chris Peckam the head scrutineer for all the Castrol 6 hour races died last month. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2007 : 3:28:15 PM
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Rules have been published in the forum involved with You must be logged in to see this link.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 08:47:11 AM
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If you would like to have input to the final honing of the rules for thsi series which will celebrate 1974 - 1979 machines, please register at the forum on You must be logged in to see this link. and make a contribution.
Remember though we are planning to have machines adopt the 'look', so normal racing rules of participation will not apply, we will encourage the early machines to partake by having a points system based on age of the machine, the solos must all derive from a 'Touring" machine, not a factory or Production racer style of bike.
I would expect rules discussions to go on for a few more weeks so there is time to get involved.
If you are interested in later model Superbikes, that may come later when we have settled this old lot down. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 2:42:08 PM
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'If you are interested in later model Superbikes, that may come later when we have settled this old lot down'
Is that a threat or a promise? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 2:47:17 PM
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It's really looking good for this concept!! I believe the 'historic superbikes series' will help historic bike racing generally. It will probably end up as a prime category, and will need a lot of good supporting races at meetings.
GOOD WORK JOHN DALEY!! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2007 : 4:29:43 PM
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I have been watching the development of this concept.
I can now see the merit in keeping it close to the original period of time. Once you get past 1979- 1981 ish the style completely changed, manufacturers took and active interest and the 'Tough, rough, go hard " look changed to the style of a racing machine.
I think it is clever to try and maintain that look. |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 11:20:10 AM
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| Not to be a blockhead, but I have read through these proposals a number of times, and it's not readily apparent to me what you are trying to achieve here that isn't already in place in Period 5. Apart from the Moto Martin, surely most of the bikes fit your criteria. I would have thought the main thing to tickle about the P5 rules would be to change the cutoff date to 1982 to align with GB and NZ. I thought the P5 races at the 2006 nats at Mt Gambier, with a 5-way go for the lead would have been hard to improve on. I don't easily see what you are trying to achieve here, but it's good to get plenty of chat happening. And the pic on the new website looks like a P4 250 Montesa.... |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2007 : 8:13:19 PM
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I am trying to celebrate the very early days of Superbike racing, by getting the style of bikes from the very start of the Superbike concept back to the track.
After about 1979, the style changed as manufactureres realised what a good thing they could get, if the produced machines to fit the class.
I intend to exclude all those machines from the next stage of Superbike development from this celebration.
I have nothing againts the later machines, but they are different from those produced in the early period.
I would imagine once the arly period has been successfully set up tyhey next period can come on.
But if we dont restrict it from the start, as with all period racing, the field will be full of all the later machiones from the period, rather than a spread of machines across a period.
The Historic Superbikes concept in part will get the earlier machines back on the track.
I guess we could label the older machines in someway to define the stage of Superebike development that they exist within. I will work on that. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2007 : 8:31:56 PM
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The plan seems to be progressing well. I see that 4 Ages may be considerded now which could be a great way to get earlier machines to the track.
www.historicsuperbikes.info for more information.
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Edited by - oldonk on 07 Oct 2007 11:39:33 AM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2007 : 4:06:46 PM
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Finalisation of the rules is happening. If you want to have any contirbution do so asap.
the HSB will be split into 4 phases, starting at 1973 - 1976 as Phase 1.
It is trying to recreate the period when Improved Touring / Superbikes was born and emphiases the Big bore stock bikes that started the whole superbike thing. Some may argue we have not fully represented the era with servere restrictions, but we think we have done well to show current Superbike fans where i all statred. Basically there are very limited chnages possible to the macjines and only machines which ran in the period will be involved in the HSB, so hot rods and coulda but didnt racer withh not be involved. Full details on the HSB site. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2007 : 8:24:39 PM
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| I believe the comment that a lot of the bikes already running in P5 are already within the rules, is accurate. The point of having the rules must be to control and limit development, if the series really takes off. The situation shouldn't exist where someone might spend an extreme amount of money on a cheater to achieve fame and fortune. In the world of the V8 supercar, even the amount of practice available is controlled to ensure a 'level playing field'. I suggest we shouldn't underestimate what might be at stake. This series could attract some really bigtime players. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2007 : 09:34:09 AM
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al, i dont think we need to go down the path of cheaters or why people spend money to win.
TheHSB concept is unrelated to these issues and is simply in place to get bikes from the early stage of the period. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 07:42:37 AM
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| Sorry John, I didn't want to be negative. Your rules appear to preclude opportunity for a lot of things which have adversely affected historic racing in the past. I believe that for the class to be a real success your good rules are essential! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 09:38:31 AM
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| A well revised comment Alan. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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