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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Dec 2007 : 09:50:15 AM
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I want to challenge the CB350 racers to come on board a promotion program along the lines tried successfully with sidecars and now trialling with Historic Superbikes.
It involves creating a gang of self promoting racers who help and encourage each other to get things happening on the track. You would stay within the current racing scene, but would take on board evne creating a set of CB350 sub clase rules so you dont get the $20,000 engine. But promotional activity may be possibl;e. Look at You must be logged in to see this link. .info for something to see.
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Edited by - oldonk on 03 Dec 2007 2:32:53 PM |
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator
Victoria
288 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 09:57:25 AM
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Mmmmm, not a bad idea. The rules regarding development of bikes would not be too difficult as most CBs are generally modified in similar ways (albeit the quality of mods dictated by how fat the wallet is of course!). This may work only for a few of us though (ie, I predict the same people [those attending the most meets] would win it every year) as there are not many cbers who go to every major meet and there are generally only a few at any given meet.
Are we talking a "club" type scene to simply promote the bikes in racing, or points accumulation? If club, I think it could work, but if points, mmm not sure. There are not enough of us around to have a series?
Anyone else?
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2007 : 2:15:32 PM
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I was talking with John Daley about 350's and he mentioned that he had put something on the site about it. It seems when the place was hacked it disappeared so I put it up again.
My guess is the Vic. meeting John is involved with.
The major part of the deal is though, the racers of 350cc take it apon themselves to bang the tin and get more people racing CB350 machines rather than having the club trying to promote specific classes. I have seen it happen in the USA and I hear the sidecar promotion that John started seems to be bearing fruit now that others have picked up the ball and spread the word. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 09:43:49 AM
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Benny, you have missed the major point.
the concept involved the CB350 gang working together , perhaps on thsi site to promote their brand of racing and get more people racing CB350 machines.
It will require promotion to the public via the www, to say netrider and many other sites, even articles in the green horror, Jsut Bikes.
You need to think, "How can I entice somebody to race a CB350 Honda", rather than think, "Its about time somebody did something about getting more bikes to the track"
It will take effort, and the more involved the easier it will be. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator
Victoria
288 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 1:59:59 PM
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Okay John, will give it some thought. However, I consider that this obviously highlights a more important variation of your theme, being "how do we entice people to race a classic bike" not just the little hondas (although this could be an avenue). Broadly, and speaking as someone new to the recreation (only 4 meets under my belt), a primary focus should be on mentoring new racers on racecraft, bike development and in general how it all works; both to make them feel a part of something and to encourage them. Knowledge builds interest. I suggest we should shift focus towards developing an induction/awareness program.
In terms of how this could be accomplished, simply contacting new members and asking them what period they are interested in and what sort of bike they would like to develop would be a start. The clubs could then put them onto a suitably experienced member for advice and guidance. Granted, the knowledge is there if you ask, but hey, you have to know where to go first! I was lucky that I had a few good people helping me from the start (Matcho Mick among others), but I can tell you that if that support was not there I would have given up due to the frustration caused by lack of contacts and knowledge.
Secondly, ads in the likes of Just bikes along the lines of “Interested in Classic Racing but don’t know where to start? – come along to the annual HMRAV Classic Racing information night etc etc etc etc”. Guest speakers from all periods, tips on bikes to choose, history etc etc.
A big part of this mentoring is the shifting away from the focus on "winners and winning" to a focus on the machines and the character of the sport. I get very bored of reading about who is the fastest etc (Classic Racer Mag is very guilty of this) and would rather hear about the people developing machines in their back sheds, the tricks they use and the hurdles they overcome. That to me is what classic racing is about; striving for the finest machine possible, accomplished largely though innovation and creativity.
I never normally say so much. I will be quiet again now. I am sure you get the picture.
Still, I will make some calls RE:cb350 initiative to gauge support.
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 09:58:03 AM
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Well said Ben. We need to grow our sport and the only way to do it is to get the message out so that potential riders are aware of what we can offer them. Perhaps we could impose a levy on all club members to fund an advertising campaign. We could also create a poster and seek friendly bike dealers to display/distribute for us. An information day at Broadford perhaps??? This has got me interested and I have spare time to devote to such an idea. Let's get ideas from others and see what we can put together.
Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 8:21:16 PM
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Ben - to back up JF - well said.
Four years ago I asked that the Historics have nights where new interested people could ask questions, learn how to prepare their bikes so that they turned up well prepared for an enjoyable days racing.
My main aim was that the new entrants arrived with an oil tight machine that did not mess up our new seal!!
Also we all knew that it would be a very good PR excercise by the club for new riders.
During 2005/6/7 "Come and Try Days" have become very important dates at Broadford and a recent Broadford + Districts M/C Club MX day had 145 new people wanting to put a toe in the water before laying down more than a few dollars to set up.
Our stats. show around 30% carry on - all tracks and clubs throughout Victoria benefit from these days.
Historics on a scale could do the same - all clubs should know how to apply for come and try, ask questions, seek advice days but some clubs for some reason can't get it together.
The sidecar club have such a day this Sunday at Broadford, I know someone from historics will be there to answer any questions ............. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 10:02:46 AM
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| Perhaps you need to create a class of fairly equally competitive machines which can race against each other. I've always looked at two strokes and multis as being superior in performance to four stroke singles and twins. If we started running the Australian Historic GP for two strokes and multis, we might get some interesting racing in carefully controlled capacity classes. We could run the Australian Historic TT for the old bangers. The two types of race could include bikes regardless of 'period'. Good luck with your 'special interest group! |
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator
Victoria
288 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 09:11:54 AM
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Thanks People. I guess the other thing I hit on but did not really illuminate is that in my mind what we really need is to stimulate newcomers to actually build new/or buy existing classic race bikes. I think there are plenty of good riders out there, but what we really need is new bikes, or access to the ones gathering dust in sheds. Given the considerable commitment in dollars and time to build a bike, I think this is where the focus should be.
Good quality racing can be had in the modern classes, and if that is all newcomers are after then they will not be satisfied with historics.
We need to build interest and enthusiasm for taking on the task of building a race bike - actually racing it is a very small part in the grand scheme of things. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 09:42:39 AM
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| Ben, I'm currently building a new classic bike and so far it's cost $4000. It's designed with both P5 and BEARS rules in mind. It's useless building something that will never be competitive in any class. If you want to get CB350s up and going in numbers, you'll need to think up a formula of racing where they can compete 'wheel to wheel' with other bikes, and the competition is dependent on rider skill rather than who's got the biggest/fastest engine or the most number of valves. To get any of the older riders interested you need a class where RACING actually happens. Noone wants to stick themselves down the road trying to keep up with cheaters or even legitimate machines with an unfair advantage. All you guys currently racing, need to ask yourself the question - why are there no Triumphs racing in Period 4 or Period 5? In the olden days they raced right up to the 70s!! |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 09:52:36 AM
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| Ben, I was just thinking about your posts on this forum, and I believe you are a bit of a rarity. I don't seem to hear of many young guys like yourself getting up and going in historic racing these days. It makes me wonder if historic racing will peter out when all of us old idiots are gone? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 5:53:22 PM
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I think we are all talking about the same thing but not actually doing anything about it.
I spoke with Oldonk a while ago about the need for groups of riders to copy what we set up with the sidecars. That is to assume responsibility for getting people to get involved.
NOW the LECURE!
I printed thsoe carsd for sidecar racing that you may have seen around and got them to anybody or group who expressed an interest in sidecars. We set up the web site and used Classic as well to bang on.
I also hang around other site sand mention sidecar racing as a pure form of adrenilin production and always invite peole to come and test. Other sidecra blokes have their own form of bragging. The combined efforst has resulted in more people actually racing, we have perhaps 5 or 6 coming along in rebuilds and the sidecar club had 19 sidecars and 64 people attend the come try day this recent weekend.
Now my idea is for one, two or more CB350 riders to do the same.
I can advise and comment in the background, but it needs to come from the cb350 gang, not me, a sidecar gent.
We can set up a site, you could lay some money down or even get somebody who is passionate and will provide some funds in return for something and promote your form of racing.
I can assure you it will take a few hours to start, but once you egt rolling you may be amazed at how it can grow. You could organise your own trophies just for the CB350 machines, have a BBQ help newbies, get some posters or banners set up, hang out together in the pits as the sidecars doo and see an improvement in the size of teh fileds.
I would stick at thsi stage to teh HMRAV events simply for the reason, it is a limited commitment of time and is measurable in any results.
If you work with a similiar group in the other staes eventually you will be ablet o meet interstae and have a ton of bike sarcing.
Any questions? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2007 : 8:54:32 PM
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| Perhaps we could find a sponsor for a CB350 Challenge who would attach their name to the contest and provide a trophy and modest monetary reward. It might appear mercenary, but in the olden days we raced for a $10 cheque for first place down to about $5 for third. It's amazing how inspiring the readies, or a tyre, or a bottle of oil can be. The sponsorship doesn't have to be megabucks! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator
Victoria
288 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2007 : 09:49:19 AM
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I hope not Alan! The main issue that I see is the sheer cost of good machines and the ridiculous values that people are placing on bikes/parts. I am starting to collect parts for a P3 500 and have already been stung for half of my budget for the pleasure of an esky full of rusty bits (half of it useless). It sux, but unfortunately there are some less than helpful people out there who place more value on the dusty crap in thier shed (which they picked up for 50p back in the day, is in excellent condition and of course very rare....sorry for the sarcasm!) than the future of classic racing.
Just my two bobs worth. If I had more money and the means to do so, I would be producing new Manxes/tritons/etc and giving them away for free to young riders  .
Some philanthropists are what we really need!
John, I am in a negative of time for the next few months but will communicate with others and get back to you.
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2007 : 5:22:36 PM
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| Ben, If I was starting in historic racing, I'd do a cost benefit analysis of each of the classes and periods. I believe that value for money a 500cc P3 Featherbed Jawa is the best option. You get to race in the premier class. I wouldn't buy anyone else,s rusty old crap, it's the most expensive, frustrating way to go. There are new frames available for about $2000. The six speed box is $4,500. I'd contact Neil Street to get a good two valve Jawa engine from the UK. For about $14000 you'd have a COMPETITIVE machine in P3, which is not bad if you consider what guys pay to get old pommie bangers going reasonably well when they start with rubbish. You might discuss Keith Campbell's bikes with him and his dad. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 08:12:47 AM
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You blokes are completely off the path.
What have you got to show sponsor, nothing.
You do not need heaps of money to go racing, you just need enough.
All you need is enthusiasim., All of the above reasons are just excuses. As John pointed out the actions the sidecar blokes took, no sponsors, no bags of money just promotion, enthusiasim and drive.
I can see this plan floundering right now.
You either want to do something or you dont it is as easy as that. |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 2:48:54 PM
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Hi guys, let's keep this on the black stuff and not go off checking out the weeds up by the fence. As I see it the need is to promote historic racing in general and within that promotion we can promote specific classes as we go. I have talked to Channel 31 and their advertising rates are very affordable. They will even put an ad together for us if we wish. I will talk to John Beckley to develop this idea further and keep you informed as I progress.
Basically, if we can get 50 people to contribute $25 each we can mount an advertising campaign. Now we need to have something to advertise. If we can get some expert people willing to donate their knowledge and some time to create a help site we have something to promote. If we can also dig up a few bikes that are for sale we have even more to promote. Can we manage that? Of course we can, but only if YOU actually DO something to help it happen.
The sidecar fraternity have been actively promoting their thing for some time now and it is working for them. They have a big advantage in that any wouldbe can be given a ride on the side, something the solos can't offer without risking bike damage, so maybe we could exploit the "come and try" situation so that interested people could ride the track on their road bikes with some historic riders accompanying them to give them a better understanding of the sport. There, my thoughts on the subject. What can you do to help kick this off?
I think it was Buddha who said that the longest journey starts with the first step. Shall we walk?
Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2007 : 5:04:34 PM
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| This forum provides something which was badly needed in the olden days - communication between riders. The very fact that ways of promoting our sport are being discussed here is encouraging. It's easy to be negative and say, it never happened before, so it'll never happen in the future. I'm looking forward to the day when I can tune my satellite TV into the Eurosport channel, and see European, American and Australian (historic) road racing. It'll only get there if we can grow our sport to a size where there is a demand for decent telecasts. I believe it will happen someday, I just hope it's before I'm gone from this planet |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 08:01:11 AM
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| I note a coment which suggested a levy to be imposed. I suggest there are enough levies and fees in historic racing already, and they act as a bit of a deterrent. I suggest you guys have a better answer already. I saw Ron Chapman selling bike DVDs at the Island Classic last year, and I sent copies of the 1983 six hour to John daley to be copied and sold. I collect two things - motorcycle books/magazines, and DVDs. I've taped stuff off the satellite, and using Nero on the computer turned it into DVDs. I suggest it would be a worthwhile execise to record the action at each years Historic titles. The bike I'm building at present has one major intended use - I want to make on-board video from inside historic races. If any of you guys want to learn to use Nero to make DVDs, I'm willing to train you. If you want to send me discs with video or photos, I'll make slide shows, and video DVDs for you. I suggest that historic racing merchandising is a better way to go than levies! John Beckley is a very useful person in this area, and he might cooperate in supplying documentary video! |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 08:10:34 AM
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| If anyone's interested in speed records on the salt, I've got a good DVD of last year's effort at Lake Gairdener |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 09:41:52 AM
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Can we stick to the original matter.
I am working with Two Wheel Torque in the background, we are working with other web sites to promote Historic racing generally.
I work with magazines with press releases etc.
So the promotion is covered largley although there is always room for more.
THIS TOPIC IS SIMPLY ABOUT THE CB350 HONDA RIDERS DOING SOMETHING FOR THEMSELVES AS I STATED AT THE START.
I believe all the discussion about all other matters is simply ensuring the real point, lets promote and build teh CB350 field is being avoided.
Over the years of my involvement they has been plenty of advise given about overall promotion. I have found that the only people who have done anything significant at all is myself, John Feakes, Patrick Fletcher and Robert Todd.
I am trying to chnage that. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2007 : 8:40:03 PM
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| I'm still suggesting that we need to look at the TYPE of bike CB3550s are competitive with, and grid up the Hondas with those. It could be Junior historic GP? While the CB350s are gridded with larger capacity bikes, noone will show much interest. If there is a really good competitive class for them, they'll be a goer! |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2007 : 10:38:06 PM
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hmmmm,couldn't have been much competitive competition in the classic manx junior this year?,the 1st 3 home were hondas!!, |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2007 : 08:14:22 AM
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It is Bullxxxxxx to think you need a fast bike to have a race. If they are all similiar they will have fun and competition.
Just get CB350 Hondas on the track. You will find nothing will happen if you try and organise a type of Honda, because others will wait for a final plan and be months behind.
You just need peoiple to decide to build tghye class, there may be standard modfications you need to do so publish them for new comers to see. |
Edited by - oldonk on 16 Dec 2007 08:38:59 AM |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 07:09:23 AM
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| I agree with Oldonk. If your special interest group has rules which limit the development of the bikes, it'll come down to rider skill, and you'll have the best fun ever! If you can get a few fellow entusiasts to communicate with each other it won't be difficult to get a controlled class up and going. Most meeting organisers will give a class its own race, if there are enough entries and support for the class. It's a matter of asking someone like John Daley how many you need to get on the grid. In the car world there are a lot of little groups which do this sort of thing. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 08:16:50 AM
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Nobody is agreing with me because nobody seems to have picked up the idea clearly.
It could be that there are no restictions beyond what the MOMS allow.
All it needs is somebodt to take the lead.
I picked up the story whenI notice john Daley ha dstarted it and it disappeared when the site got hacked.
BUT I did talk with John and got the gist of what he suggessted. All it takes in someome to start. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2007 : 4:20:22 PM
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| I suggest Ben has made a start, aand needs support in the form of a website, and a list of possible interested parties's email addresses. Once he gets his site going, he can then get into sending spam to idiots like ourselves, and promote his ideas. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2007 : 11:18:24 AM
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| Did I miss something about Ben doing something ? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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