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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 8:59:54 PM
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I have had a few calls from people who are concerned about the appearance of forks with ajustable preloading inside the forks. The cliams suggest they are not permissible under rule16.5.4.2 which states Max dia. 41mm and which replicate the type manufactured in the period.
I have done some reasearch and so far I cannot find a single machine which had adjustable forks upto 1980 manufacture.
Some machines in Historic racing have been named as not being in compliance.
So are these machines actually ineligible in the current form?
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 20 Jul 2009 12:26:01 PM |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 4:37:23 PM
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Probably not as long as you can't see the adjustment mechanism outside the fork then it complies.
It has been common knowledge for some time that you can get modern cartridges into forks with a bit of machining here and there. All you need to do is scan the parts lists of a number of different bikes. If you really want, you can also spend a heap of time getting forks from the era to work as well, just that the adjustment is harder to effect and you need to be capable of rebuilding them to tight tolerances. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 9:53:58 PM
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Probably may not be good enough. I have since found that statement it has been common knowledge you can get it into the fork tubes for a while is correct but I have been asked to ask " is it legal" within the MA rules?
Of course over this weekend I have not been able to get around to some of those I would normally speak with, so I dont know what the proper answer is and distinct to finding out more about how many are using them.
Its part of my job as a delegate and Club secretary.
Of course the suggestion has been made to lodge a protest, but that could be cruel thing to do on the weekend of a big event. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 19 Jul 2009 9:59:51 PM |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 11:29:49 PM
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| I've been told by historic scrutineers that as long as any major components are externally visually indistinguishable from a period component they are legal. |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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team400
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
19 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2009 : 11:35:07 PM
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Im with you Bernie
GCR's are available on line
Regsrds Sir Al |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 09:25:41 AM
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I have been informed that the 'cover up' must not be an add-on and must replicate something from the period.
In this case the Forks must be ndistinguishable from a named fork. If the Fork they are supposed to look like are not produced, there is no proof they are kosher.
Being mereley an add-on is not ok.
But I will follow it up further. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 11:49:17 AM
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I have asked the following question of the Commissioners about the situation
"John, can I talk with you about these forks please?
I have had calls about the use of adjustable pre loaded on p5 solos, with some people arguing they are banned by the rules and others arguing the fact if they are hidden it is ok.
Then there is the argument that the caps used to cover the adjusting screws dont look like anything from the period and they should be banned anyway.
The situation is that machines with the adjustable pre loading appear to handle a lot better than ones without them and that is the cause for complaint.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 20 Jul 2009 12:23:38 PM |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2009 : 5:44:55 PM
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John,
I suspect that you may now have another problem in that with the proposed rule changes for next year will allow bikes up until the end of December 1982. If this happens I bet some bikes will turn up with a lot more "hidden changes" and perhaps some not so hidden because the rule change will allow some strange configurations that were around at the time.
I should also point out that if your point is progressed to its logical conclusion you should also ask what's in the motors. I bet very very little of the current configuration motors will look like anything that was available back in 1982 or before. The materials were just not available then, nor the technology.
I am also wondering what will happen with the current bans on Suzuki Katanas etc. They will be a joke as will bans on fuel injection. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2009 : 09:27:18 AM
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I had a long talk with rex Wolf today and I am awauting a response from John Sims as well.
I understand the comment about what is inside motors, I argued against them in my favourate class P4 sidecars for 3 years and lost. So I purchased one. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2009 : 9:42:30 PM
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I have had thsi response from the Commissioners
"John
Forks must retain an external period appearance - same as motors - no-one cares or polices what's inside !
Marcus "
So there it is anything goes as long as the forks look ok.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2009 : 09:13:50 AM
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The best advise is to talk directly to anybody with anything you think is not ok and find out why they think it is.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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chris41
Level 1 Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 9:01:44 PM
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Yamaha had preload adjustment on XS1100 and 650s, 1979, 1980 looks pretty much like the adjusters on Suzuki 41mm forks
Chris |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 07:37:12 AM
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| This topic should be the continuation of the one about how to increase racer numbers! If someone has an ineligible bike, BAN HIM FOR LIFE! That'll get the guys back racing? How will MA handle the extra workload of protests about adjustable pre load in P5 front forks? Really have to wonder about whether anyone ever looks at the big picture when they get onto this stuff? |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2009 : 09:34:30 AM
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| Jon, you wonder why people don't race? this topic shows part of the reason. There has been 13 posts, and the second last shows that adjustable preloads existed on production bikes before 1980. It's just a big turnoff to have to prove that sort of thing. The question is does adjustable preload give a major advantage? What a joke when some bikes in other periods have a 400cc capacity advantage over others? Ask Rex about that! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 10:33:37 AM
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| The answer is it is allowable. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2009 : 08:36:36 AM
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| I'm so glad! Now I don't have to ditch my new historic bike! Wot a load of garbage this eligibility stuff has become? If you really want people to come back racing I'd stay right away from it. It's a big turnoff, and in most cases there 's really no point to it. Are we really supposed to protest if Wayne's or Robbie's P5 bike turns up with adjustable preload forks? We could get Keith Roberts to handle it for us - remember what happened to him when he opened his big mouth on an eligibility issue pertaining to the Top Gun! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2009 : 10:33:21 PM
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| Topic is closed, peole can protest as per the rules. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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