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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jan 2010 : 4:51:48 PM
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Following an incident at PI, the quest to seek compulsory oil catch trays on all P4 and P5 sidecars has been made.
What are you thoughts pklease?
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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freddie60
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
7 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2010 : 9:38:13 PM
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| Absolutely, |
Wunof Machine Shoppe |
Edited by - freddie60 on 28 Jan 2010 9:39:29 PM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2010 : 9:53:02 PM
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personal comment here;
Maybe all machines including solos should have them! |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 30 Jan 2010 11:34:11 AM |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2010 : 10:14:17 PM
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It is a well known fact that only sidecars drop oil.
Ask any solo racer. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2010 : 01:38:50 AM
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| In all seriousness, it'd be a good idea to legislate that all external oil lines should have proper fittings. I've spotted plenty of rough arrangements on chairs that are no better than a hose pushed over a pipe with a cursory twist of wire around the union. If THEY are bothered about crankcase end covers for P4 and P5 solos (and no problem there) then let's see them get fair dinkum about the attachments to external lines. I reckon this would do more to alleviate the problem than a catch tray. |
Edited by - GD66 on 29 Jan 2010 01:39:50 AM |
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revhd
Level 2 Member
Victoria
108 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2010 : 09:59:26 AM
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| about time,every time i follow a sidecar race oil on the track,pi island was a mess fri. afternoon |
125 alliance |
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team400
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
19 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2010 : 2:55:00 PM
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I'm with Glen on this surely a reg or standard for cooler hoses would mke sense,plus create less grief for everyone |
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NicM
Level 2 Member
Victoria
85 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2010 : 4:59:30 PM
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| I've done a handful of races since I started a year ago, I can remember only one where we weren't waiting around for clean up after a sidecar oil spill and I think that was a Hartwell meet.. |
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Bretta
Level 2 Member
Victoria
57 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2010 : 2:45:55 PM
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I gotta add my 2 cents worth here, yes some (not all) sidecars can spill a bit of oil and I think the comment by GD bout ensuring that all oil lines are secured with proper fittings is a must and I would have thought that this would have been checked at scrutineering if it's such a huge problem. But despite many hours of meticulous preparations some things can and will usually break or fail just like on solo's. I for one have seen many a solo with a slight oil leak just like most sidecars. The idea of a catch tray is good for all machines but how are we to design a catch tray that will catch 5 ltr of oil? even if it drops 1 ltr the forces of nature and speed are just going to blow it everywhere including the back wheel, brakes and the likes. Preperation is the key, keeping oil lines clean and in good order, ensure fittings are secure and if someone does drop oil on the track make sure that the machine is triple checked for repairs (Not the Dodgy Bros) before it's allowed back on the track.
Bretta
Brass Balls Racing
#07 |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2010 : 9:21:17 PM
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FIRSTLY, From memory all modern machines, solo and sidecar MUST have catch trays and they all do.
So it can be done.
sECONDLY, i DONT WANT THSI DISCUSSION TO TURN INTO stories about one style or another. I can present more stories to bag one group over the other, but I have learnt such action does not help the discussion.
This topic is in the sidecar section to seek opinions about the application of the proposal, it is not here to encourage others to can sidecars.
So can we get back to any issues relating to fitting catch trays.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 30 Jan 2010 9:24:49 PM |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2010 : 9:56:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GD66
In all seriousness, it'd be a good idea to legislate that all external oil lines should have proper fittings. I've spotted plenty of rough arrangements on chairs that are no better than a hose pushed over a pipe with a cursory twist of wire around the union. If THEY are bothered about crankcase end covers for P4 and P5 solos (and no problem there) then let's see them get fair dinkum about the attachments to external lines. I reckon this would do more to alleviate the problem than a catch tray.
Hi GD,
Anything to help not larding up the track is a step in the right direction.
Since 1963 I have been cleaning up oil spills and it is getting worse - poor preparation is the major issue.
An engine blow up is acceptable .... but a hose falling off or a filter not properly fitted is indefensible. |
Edited by - Patrick on 31 Jan 2010 12:03:15 AM |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2010 : 07:31:14 AM
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I have given this some thought and I think G.D.has it in a nutshell.
There is no reason that sidecars should be more prone to leaking oil than are solos, other than, perhaps, remote oil coolers with dodgy hose connections.
I don't feel that there is any need for knee jerk reactions here, common sense should be enough to minimize the problem.
Make sure that good connections are used and make sure that they are properly tightened. Remember that oil is under pressure (hopefully).
Loss of oil can have disastrous effects. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2010 : 5:49:40 PM
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I certainly agree that anything to stop oil reaching the track is a good thing. Totally agree that dodgy hose fastening should be picked up at scrutineering. I am a bit with Brett though about how to do it successfully - and I don't accept that just because it is done on moderns then it can be done! The reason I don't accept that is firstly because I have looked at lots that have a catch tray but I would bet my left one that if they were actually put to the test that there would be plenty of tray but no 'catch'. My point here is that it is useless putting a catch tray on that doesn't work. Honestly the only way I can see a catch tray actually working is to either have such high sides that you might confuse it with the fairing or to have some sort of inverted lip to keep the oil in under brakes or cornering. And then once you design a tray to actually work where does one put it on some of the old outfits? There is a minimum ground clearance to comply with so I cannot put anything under my frame and my engine is only about 15 mm above the bottom of my frame tubes so I look at it and think, 'how can I fit a 15 mm high catch tray into a space between the frame that would actually catch anything that my motor (or in my case gearbox) might dump". I really find it difficult to see it happening. So, while I agree with the need I would probably be ruled out of competition if it was introduced before I could build a new frame!
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2010 : 5:43:20 PM
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It would seem that nobody is going to challenge my ascertion that I could not fit an effective catch tray to my outfit - I was hoping some wise person could let me know how to do it?
But in the absence of that I will jump over to John's other topic on oil on track and put some comments there.
Meanwhile, if anybody has any suggestions about how a catch tray might work I would love to hear them.
Cheers
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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Bretta
Level 2 Member
Victoria
57 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 8:34:45 PM
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Hello All,
Whilst filling in some time at the vic titles, was waiting to pick up our transponder, got to talking with a few people who were also waiting, anyways ..... the topic came around bout sidecars and oil.... anyway this gentleman (sorry forgot his name... rides an Indian I think) he explained to us that whilst racing overseas somewhere that he was told to place a layer of oil spill cloth around the bottom of his motor. The next thing we were all doing was brainstorming this idea and if it could be a useful thing for everyone to do.
Commercially available is a cloth material used to soak up oil spills, apparently a square metre folded will soak up approx 500mls of oil. The cloth would be attached in between 2 sheets of fine wire mesh of some sort, this would allow it to be moulded around the bits and pieces that stick out and also would not stuff up the 65mm clearence on most sidecars. I believe this material is fire resistant so no problems there. Although this will not catch a whole motors worth of oil, but hey its a start and like someone said before on this topic..... anything is a good thing to stop oil hitting the track. We are currently looking at putting one on the #07 machine.
Cheers
Bretta
Brassballs Racing #07 |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 8:42:38 PM
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Sounds good can you get a name of the product.
REPCOMAN may be able to help. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Bretta
Level 2 Member
Victoria
57 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2010 : 9:03:24 PM
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Yeah John, the short, fat man with a long beard is onto it... will post something as soon as I know.
Bretta |
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k21john
Level 1 Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 06:18:16 AM
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Hi Guys
Funny we're just having the same conversation over here in the UK, We had two imp engined outfits let go on Sunday at Mallory Park, oil everywhere and long delays for clear up operation, you might find the thread interesting on the CRMC forum as there is some good ideas coming across,
To view the thread visit crmc.co.uk click on the forum button. The sidecar section is in the members area but I will more than happily set you guys up as International Guests which will give you full access to the hole forum.
Cheers
John Mitchell
Administrator CRMC Forum |
The best thing come in Three's...
It's a Triple thing... |
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peen0_0
Level 3 Member
Victoria
224 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 1:08:42 PM
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Buck and I used this very same technique at the Vic Historics, in the catch tray under the motor.
Because the motor doesn't leak, essentialy, there wasn't much on/in the material.
Problem with tying it to the bottom of the motor is that it may restrict the ability of the material to expand as it absorbs any oil??
We use this product in my field of employment for chemical, oil, etc, spills. I can also do a search if you like?
It comes in a range of absorbencies for varying purposes.
Cheers, Peen (Tony)Sidecar #20. |
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peen0_0
Level 3 Member
Victoria
224 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 1:20:17 PM
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There are a number of suppliers out there.
Have a look at this link to see what is on offer re the sheet material.
www.spillstation.com.au
Cheers, Tony. |
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