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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 11:56:12 AM
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Tagged electrical items at Broadford
The time has come when worksafe has accessed the Broadford racetrack. Every electrical item attached to the system at the track will be required to be tagged.
the HMRAV safety officer will have the authority to remove any untagged lead. A tagging service may be available at the track for a fee.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 12:47:48 PM
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More bloody restrictions.
Soon we will have to have a tag to state that our shoe laces have been properly done up!
My understanding is that this legislation applies to "work places", "public places" and "equipment offered for hire".
Does a race meeting fall under one of these categories? |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 1:10:28 PM
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| Yes, a recent Superbike event was given the choice, tag or close down the event immeadiatelty. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 1:19:53 PM
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Yes, but who was given this choice?
The user of a particular appliance?
The circuit owner?
The meeting organiser?
I thought Hitler was dead. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 1:32:00 PM
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The meeting organiser.
At Broadford they have had some problems with busses etc hooking to the power and trying to keep 15 tyrewarmers going. Apparently it is blowing teh circuit breakers regularly.
I suppose worksafe see situations that they are working to prevent.
Call Patrick for all the details. But come what may there is little we can do. If somebody is electrocuted we will be buggered. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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peen0_0
Level 3 Member
Victoria
224 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 1:48:58 PM
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Can I suggest that a copy of the relevant standard be obtained before anyone "jumps at shadows" with this matter, i.e.Australian Standard AS/NZS 3760 In-service safety inspection and testing of electrical equipment?
The obligations for testing in this case will fall under Public Safety requirements, also listed in the OHS Act (Vic) 2004.
It would also be prudent to assess what obligations can be applied to anyone participating in events, and their equipment that they might use, i.e. what if people use generators to supply their own power?
If WorkSafe are promoting this approach, then they also have an obligation (under the Act) to provide advice and guidance on how compliance might be achieved, and what it is exactly.
I'm happy to provide advice if required. A Masters in the field gives me some knowledge!!
Cheers, Tony.
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 4:01:58 PM
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'Onya Tony.
We haven't got a clue. I just like to stir up a discussion. Sorry.
Can you add more words of wisdom please? |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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peen0_0
Level 3 Member
Victoria
224 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 5:38:18 PM
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Nah, give em B*****Y John!
The point with this approach is to do what is "resonably practicable" and to be able to demonstrate this. This means that requirements can be placed on those who use the sites power supply, i.e. in the pit sheds, but not those who bring their own supply, i.e. generators. The site can ask that all equipment used is in a "safe condition" according to the standard, but only where it has "management control". If something then goes wrong, the site can demonstrate that it has taken reasonable action. Reasonable is defined in the act as being what the normal or average person would consider. (Don't ask me to define normal, I race a sidecar!!)
I could go on and on here, but its probably better sit down and talk it through with whoever will be overseeing or implementing the approach. Happy to help if I can.
Cheers, Tony. |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 5:43:39 PM
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Maybe I am just a dumb sidecar racer but I am not sure what 'tagging'involves. However, if it is a necessary evil then we will need to have extremely clear information provided to us with the sup regs for each meeting so that we can comply. I want to do the right thing but I am not keen to drive half way across Australia only to find that I have got the wrong colour tag...
I also object to the concept of, 'a tagging service may be available at the track for a fee...' How many more fees are going to be tagged (pun intended) on to racing???
Geoff Grant
Sidecar #30 |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 8:36:41 PM
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Tagging is big news these days but as I advised JD today if you are bringing any extension cord into the State MCS Complex then it must have a current inspection tag attached.
Any building contractor or subbie will know that this is not new.
The same goes for George Foreman grills - slow cookers and anything else that soaks up our power.
The SMSC is a workplace so we must take every step to ensure that we go by the Workplace rules.
After the recent MX death at our site WorkSafe had to be advised and I can report that the inspectors were very good to deal with; firm in their approach but took into account the nature of our sport and the variety of codes that hire out our amazing property.
Sorry to go on but for the upcoming fabulous Southern Classic have a look at anything electrical that you are going to plug into the 200 odd outlets we provide.
If you are sure that you need it then get a local sparkie or approved tester to make sure it is safe to use and get it "tagged"
All we ask is that you do it as soon as you can
Thanks for reading
Patrick
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 10:11:41 PM
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| Geoff I am notsure how we can cope with you, maybe we can do something as a club for interstaters. Ideally bif we had a club officila licenced to tag it would be easy. Maybe somebody knows what is involved, HELP! |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2010 : 10:15:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by john feakes
Yes, but who was given this choice?
The user of a particular appliance?
The circuit owner?
The meeting organiser?
I thought Hitler was dead.
The meeting organiser [YK] had to pay up around $2700 to keep his event on track.
Caught everyone by surprise but was a lesson for all.
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 08:18:26 AM
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| Worksafe is the 'competent authority' controlling race circuits. Electrical compliance should be to AS3000 , the Australian Standard Wiring Rules. If you don't like it - STIFF! I refer you to the Australian Standard publication titled 'Managing Risk in Motor Sport', which you can read at Standards Australia in South Melbourne! As far as Worksafe is concerned, I suggest you don't make yourselves into targets. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 08:24:57 AM
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| I believe John Feakes mentioned that his friend has a full time job specialising in tagging electrical appliances. I suggest that those starting devices powered by angle grinders would be closely looked at by Worksafe. Guarding is one of their favorite issues. |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 08:24:59 AM
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| Patrick, why did Y.K. have to pay and to whom and for what did he have to pay? |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 08:32:23 AM
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| I couldn't see anyone having to pay $2700 to Worksafe, unless it was a fine? Did he pay an OHS consultant to asses the electrical system at Broadford? Or has Worksafe required him to have a Risk Management system for his event? |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 09:17:16 AM
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Boys, I did have a mate who did testing and tagging but unfortunately he is no longer available to us in Victoria.
It is not expensive, probably in the order of $10 per item so I guess the trick is to sort out your essential appliances and find a local to test them for you. It is not impossible, just another bloody restriction on our freedom. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 12:55:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by john feakes
Patrick, why did Y.K. have to pay and to whom and for what did he have to pay?
WorkSafe inspector came to a track in WA on practice day and asked that everyone have all items tagged before the two day event.
I was told that YK arranged for all inspections to be carried out onsite to ensure that his event went ahead.
Craig on our staff has passed his test & tag licence and has gone completly through our property.
We would prefer that everyone complies with the blue & white sign on the front gate [its been there for just on 14 months]! |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 1:18:43 PM
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What front gate?
Sorry Patrick, when I come through the front gate I am invariably looking out for you and any bikes that may be cruising around.
I honestly have not seen a blue and white sign.
I am sure this will come up at our meeting next Wednesday and it seems that it is something that needs to be publicised particularly in supp.regs.
I will have a chat to Ross.
Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 2:50:35 PM
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DDDDAAAARRRRNNNN!!!!
Can we just get on with racing instead of arguing with the messanger.
John mentioned he had advised the committee about the need for a note in the supp regs.
Please we have had more words on this than Period 6! |
Edited by - oldonk on 30 Jun 2010 2:54:56 PM |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 3:12:11 PM
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It is called 'HEALTHY DISCUSSION'.
Since it potentially affects all tracks and all clubs and interstate visitors the more publicity it gets the better.
Not every competitor reads this forum.
H.M.R.A.V. is not the only club affected. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 5:44:25 PM
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I was under the impression people were trying to tell worksafe to piss off!
Thats how it came over.
And I think that would be difficult |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 9:13:53 PM
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Do interstate tags comply, we are sending a container to Broadford for the Southern Classic and I am sure there will be the odd battery charger etc in there. It would be a lot easier for us to tag everything before we leave.
Incidentally I agree with the later comments, if it is a requirement then live with it. Rather than complaining and trying to get around it comply keep safe and enjoy your racing. If you want to make comments about anything work on what will improve racing and send it through to MA and the Commission for them to consider.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 9:51:05 PM
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| The 'Guide to Managing Risk in Motor sport is a public document. It isn't owned by CAMS, MA, NHRA, or AASA. The intellectual property pertaining to risk at race events is owned by the Standards Association, and it's the basis for what Workcover is on about! The intent is that most risks at events are identified, assessed and controlled. In the end we should not see a situation where any spectator is injured through anyone's negligence - if that happened it would be close to worst case scenario. |
Edited by - glen20 on 30 Jun 2010 9:53:23 PM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2010 : 10:25:38 PM
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| Thanks Alan, lets get back to getting the message out vand getting more racers involved. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 07:48:44 AM
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| I'd just make one suggestion. Develop a 'risk management plan' for one of your meetings, then use it for all others. It's not rocket science, and if you can demonstrate you're proactive as far as safety is concerned, it could stand you in good stead if you ever come before the coroner. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 07:53:55 AM
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'Thanks Alan, lets get back to getting the message out vand getting more racers involved.'
Changing the subject again? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 09:49:46 AM
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The ACT, NSW both have the tagging requirement.
This is an interesting site;
You must be logged in to see this link. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 01 Jul 2010 09:57:51 AM |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 09:59:23 AM
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It is in everyone's interest to know that their leads and appliances are safe.
Electricity is something I have the greatest respect for.
You can't see it coming and it can have a fatal bite.
Let's get behind this and make it a universally accepted practice. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
Edited by - john feakes on 01 Jul 2010 10:01:40 AM |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 10:18:27 AM
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Alan is right, a Risk Management Plan is a sound idea. It shows initiative and awareness. I work in explosives and we live or die (possibly literally) by them. It's all about accountability and risk management, whether we like it or not. Stay ahead of the game in other words. I was at a club meeting the other day and there was a fair bit of laxity around basic stuff like not speeding in the pits...it takes one child to be seriously hurt or dread the thought killed for the entire racing community to face a wall of obstruction, scrutiny and very bad press. I don't say this to be alarmist, simply that we will come under more compliance related scrutiny and we should be well prepared for it as a sport. |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2010 : 6:06:11 PM
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John F,
True not everyone does read this site and who could get them all to, I have tried.quote:
Originally posted by john feakes
Not every competitor reads this forum.
H.M.R.A.V. is not the only club affected.
Also, this is not HMRAV's site, it is totally independent of all the clubs, but somewhere where clubs can come and advertise what they have to offer for the sport.
On to the tagging issue: I work in IT during my regular work and used to have to manage contractors to tag all out cabling, be it a simple power lead for the PC or more complex cables. Was not a matter of work cover "telling us", but a matter of pure safety. The contractors used to charge $3k a year to tag our work place and they got the apprentices to do the testing and tagging.
My question would be, who is going to be liable if some visitor to a track was electrocuted with someones cable that was brought to the track from someone who did not have a safe cable? It would not be the person who brought the cable, but the event organiser.
So why not take the risk away in the first place and ensure that all users have done the responsible thing and have a safe cable. I personally, applaud the move to have all cables checked before being able to use them, that way we can ensure that some poor child (part of the future of the sport) that maybe there at the track doesn't risk being electrocuted because someone could not be bothered to have their cable checked to ensure it is safe.
(my 2 cents worth) |
Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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