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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 08:58:12 AM
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G.D. do you really see it as ambiguous?
To me it is quite clear.
The subject is RADIO COMMUNICATION.
As it mentions outside assistance it logically must relate to pit crew to rider communication by radio (as happens in the car racing world).
I completely fail to see how this could ever relate to two people on the one machine wishing to be able to hear each other over the noise.
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125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Historic
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
46 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 10:40:49 AM
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These post seem to go on and on and etc.
A simple question was asked, eventually correctly answered and even confirmed by MA's National Rule interpreter Mr Martin. Yet we still have people trying to find some hidden message or some stupid way of reading a rule.
It doesn't matter if some "fail to see the reason" or doesn't think it should be a rule. It is.
GD66 made a very good point that the All Disciplines chapter also needs to be taken into account. The only other point worth mentioning that actually reading the current rule book is a big step in the right direction.
As is clearly pointed out on page 282 or the current Manual of Motor Cycle sport.
Historic |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 2:00:52 PM
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What are you on Historic?
My Manual has only got 274 pages so what are you looking at?
I'll qualify that, 274 pages, 4pp cover and a 4pp advertisement insert.
If you paid attention you would have noted that the rule in question, 12.7 is in the All Disciplines section and it is on page 95.
Oh, Ross Martin's title is Commissions and Committees Manager, not interpreter of the rules.
I think you just like to play at being a very important person.
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125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 2:24:54 PM
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Please, no fighting in the war-room!!! |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 6:19:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by john feakes
G.D. do you really see it as ambiguous?
To me it is quite clear.
The subject is RADIO COMMUNICATION.
As it mentions outside assistance it logically must relate to pit crew to rider communication by radio (as happens in the car racing world).
Yes John, I see it as being ambiguous in that it covers pit-to-rider, passenger-to-rider, passing truck-to-rider etc without going into specifics. It's a generalisation, to avoid going into long-winded sidetracks down each of these paths. So OK, maybe not ambiguous per se, but it's a rule which is difficult to attack, but easy for any clerk or steward to defend.
Bottom line is, no comms are permitted, and Peen figured that out a while back.
Still, it's always healthy to get rule interpretations on the menu, as the more people familiarise themselves with the rule book and the processes involved in passing remits, rule modifications and introductions, the sooner we'll all be happy that we are in charge of the rules and regs of our sport. It's US.
Not THEM. |
Edited by - GD66 on 03 Jun 2011 6:20:17 PM |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 6:49:10 PM
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Just to clarify one point for Mr Feakes, Ross Martin is the Rules Interpreter for MA as well as being the Commissions and Committees Manager.
Sometimes instead of trying to manipulate things to suit maybe one should read the intent of various rules rather than the actual wording which can be dificult to achieve to every ones satisfaction |
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 7:30:24 PM
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| Jason, Unlike you I was actually racing in the 60s. I never once saw a digital tacho or a go-kart engine management system on any bike. Electronic ignitions were about but they were analogue devices NOT DIGITAL. I don't give a flying what 'the rules' say.- Historic racing is supposed to be about HISTORY! What 'could have existed' isn't the issue, it's what DID EXIST that's important! The same thing applies to carbon fibre items.-I worked with it in the aircraft industry in the early sixties, but it wasn't seen on bikes until the 70s. The same with this communicator thing. Lindsay Urquardt was heavily invcolved in sidecar racing right through the 50s and 60s - ask him if communicators were used. When you ask Ross Martin, you are talking to a speedway sidecar rider, and he'd really know? |
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Historic
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
46 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 7:33:04 PM
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Well spotted Mr Feakes, Just checking you actually had a rule book, knew how to open it and could read. From the majority of your posts I must admit I had my doubts.
Thanks Alan for correcting Mr Feakes yet again.
John you seem to have a problem with me. I don't think I always right, I just don't think it's necessary for you to keep proving how many ways you can be wrong on each and every subject posted.
The only thing that truly surprised me on this topic is nobody has suggested that communications should be allowed on 4 strokes and banned on 2 strokes.
Historic |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 8:11:25 PM
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Alan, unlike you I actually race now.
As usual you have not understood what I'm saying. |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2011 : 8:59:39 PM
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| Alan (Conker), items like up-to-date ignitions which fall outside the category of Major Components (Rule 16.4.0.7) can only be to the improvement of the reliability of the race bikes. Yes, we like to see a "representation" of bikes from the day, but mods to minor components aren't worth niggling about. If you push your point to the extreme, we'd all be whizzing about on Dunlop triangulars in pudding basin helmets and unlined leathers. Won't be happening... |
Edited by - GD66 on 03 Jun 2011 9:00:30 PM |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2011 : 08:13:10 AM
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Historic, do you take "nasty" pills when you get up?
This is not about who is right and who is wrong, it is about rules that often don't say what they mean or don't mean what they say.
G.D.'s ambiguity.
M.A. is there to represent us, not to rule us.
We need healthy and open discussion as befits a democratic society.
I invite you to open your mind and give serious thought to all issues that affect us.
Could you manage that please? |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2011 : 08:37:28 AM
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Alan (W.A.), to read the intent of a rule it is necessary to revert to the commission minutes at the time the rule was proposed and hopefully learn what the intent was.
This is not always easy as time goes by and the required minutes may not be available.
To expect any one person to be the interpreter of rules is a very unhealthy expectation. We will always only get one person's opinion which may be right or may be wrong.
Far better to have the rules rewritten to remove all ambiguity. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
Edited by - john feakes on 04 Jun 2011 08:39:06 AM |
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2011 : 10:39:47 AM
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| It's impossible to write enough rules to get historic bikes even looking genuine. -'the rules' simply apply a straight jacket. If the intent is there to 'improve' a 50s Manx with modern parts, no rule in the world will change that intent. The trouble is that our 'historic racing' which was supposed to 'preserve the old racing machinery', is turning most of the good stuff into paddock bikes. A friend of mine won the P3 unlimited champ a few years ago with a Triton. Every single part on it except the cylinder head had been remanufactured. I suggest we've lost the plot! I'd be interested to know if anyone knows of a stock standard original manx in existence in Australia today? One with 19 inch wheels,round section tyres, the right carby gearbox, tank and seat? There's a challenge for you! I rode one like that years ago, and experienced what the A graders rode back then. I don't believe many of us will ever have that opportunity in the future? |
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2011 : 12:58:17 PM
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| Jason, about my bike - it's almost back together. I had a stupid problem with the chains and sprockets. Like most Brit stuff, it's designed to drive people insane. I've still got to bolt on the little bits - battery carrier, fairing mounts, but it should be going next week. I'll have it at Winton in a few weeks time. You're welcome to come for a look, and I might even let you give it a squirt. The might be a few more old farts there. Some of the guys have expressed interest in coming up for a practice. It'll be on a friday. |
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peen0_0
Level 3 Member
Victoria
224 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2011 : 2:43:03 PM
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| Hmmmm, Gentlemen, seems like the sandbox is shrinking again! Am I being petulant, or am I sensing the "My Thread" has been hijacked? I found some clarity to my question, end of story for me, just as someone noted earlier on. Can I suggest that you boys take your concerns about rule interpretations, who raced when and with what, who has had nasty pills and who hasn't, etc, etc, to another thread somewhere off in the ether? Cheers, Tony. |
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Cookey
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
6 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2011 : 5:56:03 PM
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| ...You just beat me to it, Tony. I thought this was the 'sidecar' area of the Forum, too. Re team communication..? Stay with the historical format. Just wear extra padding under the leathers and continue to strategically punch [sic. thump,bash,kick,belt] each other as the situation demands. |
"Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is forever." |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2011 : 6:32:39 PM
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| Settle, lads : it's called a thread because it weaves about all over the place. Anyway the discussion has given Peen his answer, plus invigorated a bit of chat about rules. So, no harm done. What was it you had in mind to discuss instead, Cookey ? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2011 : 8:00:04 PM
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Topic locked as it has gone away from where it was meant to after the user got the answer they needed.
If you want to talk about the interpretations of the rules, please start a new topic and keep it on topic.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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Communicators
Topic Locked
