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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jun 2013 : 9:28:55 PM
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I dont know why, but tonight was a no show.
Alan Cotherel will remember the time I had $5000 made available by a sponsor to encourage Classic 500 cc solos to attend an Historic Winton at a time when few were turning up. The deal was to say how much money you needed to get the bike ready to race and turn up.
Despite 3 months work, I could not spend even $5 of the $5000. Toddy was aware of the offer as well.
Tonight I had a former racer who wanted to finance to the tune of $10,000 to help run a Festival of Sidecars at Broadford,a topic which has been presented here.
Unfortunately nobody attened to hear his news and at the moment I am not sure what will happen. But if anybody can say why it did not work tonight I would be pleased?
Regards
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2013 : 05:48:52 AM
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| John,Sorry your meeting was a non-goer. I suggest we have all made the mistake of believing that motorcycle guys actually look for events in which to participate. My feeling is that unless we get moderated 'no reply' email lists operative, motorcycle sport will never amount to much. If an email turns up on my computer 3 months ahead of a meeting with the supplementary regulations, it is in my face, and I would always give it consideration. If I have to monitor websites to find out what the go is, - it ain't gonna happen. There is a privacy issue with email lists, however the legal situation revolves around the reason that the information was given in the first place. If you want support, get in their faces! Talk to MA and MV about getting access to their member databases. We need to get the digital technology working for us. Motorcycle racing should be bigger than Ben Hur ! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2013 : 05:55:47 AM
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| John, A question : If you wanted to get a message to every motorcycle road racer in Australia, how would you send the email ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2013 : 06:36:01 AM
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Alan: You would need to have their permission to send them an e-mail for a start or you or the organisation would be listed as a SPAMMER. I have some software that will send out a online newsletter that I can setup and configure for different clubs if it will help and users would need to signup and agree to receive e-mails.
You would also need to do follow-up e-mails to each month and not just the 3 months before as I know if I get an e-mail something more than a month before it is due to happen, I just file it away and forget it. Sometimes I miss it, others I am reminded up to a week before it happens and turn up. The offer is there for the software and it has security around who can logon and I also believe that it is restricted what the logged on user can send. |
Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2013 : 1:04:56 PM
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| Thanks for the input. We certainly got it wrong thsi year. Next time we will go back to some ideas and talk to David about things. David, maybe set up some thing small for the sidecars as a start and see how that goes? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 09:59:41 AM
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David, if anyone gave their email address to MA or MV and paid their high fees, surely they would expect to receive motorcycling related material if they had subscribed to an information service? The way things are - so fragmented, is unproductive bullsh*t. I'm not talking about newsletters, what I mean is a moderated email onforwarding service to promoters of events. If someone wanted to send a newsletter, no problem, but it would need scrutiny by an intermediary. To my mind this is something constructive our controlling bodies should do to earn their money. A simple database with relevant fields of interest included, would allow event notices to be targeted to interested parties.
It is a matter of being pro-active. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 10:11:17 AM
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| David, I am talking out of school, but this subject is current within the Winton Motorcycle Club. We have to do this, even if only at club level and run by Winton Motor Raceway. We cannot continue to bumble along depending on people to look at Facebook or our web page. We need to target our customers for events. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 10:21:56 AM
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| John, 'Life tends to leave the fearful behind'. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2013 : 10:31:37 AM
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It is still a matter of agreeing to receive e-mails from who ever and there is no way MA, MV or anyone else would provide a list of e-mail addresses to a third party as that is a breach of the privacy act. It would be like MA, MV or even this site selling your e-mail address to a marketing company and then them on-selling that to another company and them selling it to someone else and before you know it, your mail box is full of rubbish.
I even do not send users of this site an e-mail unless they signed up to follow a topic or an area. I used to send reminders to users that had not been on the site for a while, but the government changed the law to not allow you to send any communication with-out the recipient agreeing to receive and I have to give the person a way to opt out, so it was easier to not do it. (Check out: You must be logged in to see this link.
The Newsletter software was just another way to send an e-mail out in a legitimate way, where the user needs to request the e-mail and then has the option to opt out. The software that I have, has a database that stores users name and e-mail address in it, and that is all apart from wanting to receive or not receive a newsletter, so it is not a matter of being "pro-active" (which is what I was doing), it is a matter of law as one of the points in the ACMA document states:
Consent: it must be sent with your consent, either express consent or inferred from a business or other relationship between the individual and organisation
That is what they are doing when they sign-up which they did not agree to in the current e-mail addresses lists that might be held by MA, MV, this site or any club.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2013 : 04:23:15 AM
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David, if someone answers an option on your website to subscribe to a motorcycle race event information service, and then receives emails with supp regs and entry forms attached - is there a problem with that ?
Also, the privacy act is about distributing your private information for purposes for which it was not intended.
If you give your email address to a motorcycle club, MA or MV - what do you intend the end purpose of them having it to be ?
I would ask one other simple question of yourself and John Daley: - What are you trying to achieve with this website and HMRAV - what is your vision for historic road racing in Australia ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2013 : 04:33:50 AM
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| David, I suggest that far from being any sort of radicals, motorcyclists are prepared to put themselves in a rule-bound straight jacket. They jump at the sight of any idiot regulation from government, community group or even their own controlling body, and are not prepared to fight for their democratic rights, or even in some cases the good of our sport. Citing the privacy act without investigation how it might apply in this case is an example of that subservient mindset. We are looking to be controlled. We are like women creating our own 'glass ceiling'. Have a look at where road racing now is generally, in Australia. - Is that good ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2013 : 04:38:21 AM
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| Perhaps we need the Hell's Angels to control motorcycle sport in Australia ? At least we'd get a buzz out of it. John's sidecar riders meeting would have been great. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2013 : 06:20:17 AM
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Hi Alan,
Let me answer your questions below each one of them, before getting back on topic.
quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
David, if someone answers an option on your website to subscribe to a motorcycle race event information service, and then receives emails with supp regs and entry forms attached - is there a problem with that ?
The subscription would be clearly listed to receive promotional materials from Classic/Post Classic and Historic motorcycle clubs around Australia and the user would know what they are signing up for, as opposed to supplying your e-mail address as part of a registration for something: i.e..; Racing License, log books and such
quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
If you give your email address to a motorcycle club, MA or MV - what do you intend the end purpose of them having it to be ?
You would not expect to get "SPAM" from them to say we have this going on, and we have that going on when they have not made that clear in the first place and to organisations pass on your information to other organisations, it is a way for the organisations that you supplied your e-mail address to, to simply send renewal notifications that you have requested to save on the cost of posting that organisation(s) to do so via "snail" mail.
quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
I would ask one other simple question of yourself and John Daley: - What are you trying to achieve with this website and HMRAV - what is your vision for historic road racing in Australia ?
I can only answer for this site as I have no influence over HMRAV as they have no influence over this site. I was hoping to increase the awareness of Classic/Post Classic and Historic motorcycle racing in Australia, which I currently have over the 10 plus years that the site has been running. Then you have the negative people who try to bring it down, which one are you? (sorry rhetorical question)
Now John, the offer is there for me to setup the software to help promote items that subscribed users may be interested in with the option to unsubscribe and who knows, you may get a few more users next year at your dinner.
This could also work for future race events that would be coming up as it will allow categories for users to subscribe to as rather than every item.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2013 : 07:41:29 AM
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David, because I have a difference of opinion with you, that doesn't mean I am trying to bring down your website. If I wanted to do that there are effective ways it could be done, however I would never go there. I'm not implying that there is coordination between yourself and HMRAV, however I suggest you have common goals which relate to the future of historic racing in Australia. It is no secret that I think a bit differently about classic racing than many. In particular, handling technology related eligibility issues by date of machine manufacture, I believe to be counter-productive and inadequate.
The moderated no-reply email list is currently under consideration by the Winton Motorcycle Club. We understand that we must run as a business and target our customers, especially now that we have the GFC upon us. My current approach is that the moderated no-reply email list service should be available for use all motorcycle event organisers to target competitors. I believe that our sport depends on 'critical mass' to survive and succeed.
A question : Why would anyone give their email address to MA or MV ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2013 : 07:53:59 AM
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Alan,
This was already answered by me and what I though the reason would be:
quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
A question : Why would anyone give their email address to MA or MV ?
They would give that to MA to receive license renewal notifications or sup regs, but not for social items, such as dinners.. Do we need to keep going over and over on this same subject. It is illegal to send unsolicited communications and not only that, it lowers the standing of the company that has sent them as it is a sign of desperation .. Simple. |
Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2013 : 9:19:30 PM
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| You've given all the reasons that a moderated no reply email list should not happen. What are the reasons that it SHOULD happen ? Do you really believe that classic road racing has a future in Australia ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2013 : 9:24:05 PM
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| How do event promoters send Supp Regs to potential competitors for their events ? Is this a secret service by MA/MV that I don't know about ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2013 : 11:17:01 AM
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| I receive unsolicited emails from two Melbourne motorcycle clubs. Who should I report them to ? Perhaps I should sue them for invasion of privacy ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2013 : 12:38:45 PM
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| are you simply an ahole or just loosing the plot Alan. I have enough crap with out you adding to it like a little child... |
Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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2013 dinner - no show
