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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 10:05:13 PM
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Yes, agree 100% about safety improvements - I think John Feakes had the basics sorted out in an earlier post - the specs he mentioned almost mirror the current P5 specs in any case, and if this series is going to be a goer, you would expect eligibility rules to allow the inclusion of most current P5 unlimited solos already racing under current MA Historic regs...........that way you would open up the field as much as possible.
If the rules for this series were relaxed too much, well it would really only be an attractive option to those competitors with money to burn I think ??
If The Syndicate could be coaxed out of retirement, that would be great. Guesty on his Z1R is the only kwakka that provides any competition to Robbie at the moment...
:-)
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".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2007 : 10:41:37 PM
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The initial plan involved having machines similar to the early ones. I am not interested in having hot rods created using bits and pieces. I believed the only practical method was to go along with the current P5 rules, that way existing conforming bikes are eligible.
I am interested to hear the comment about the Laverda being run on Methanol, is that true.
I have a preference for complete machines, not parts of the best in this particular series, and I would plan to have them ommitted from any points, otherwise it just decieves the riders and spectators about the machines. That is they think they are riding against a known product only to find something with completely different characteristics. Ie brakes moving from OK to super quality with an enhanced calipers off a Guzzi, compared with the original style etc.
I dont accept the argument "its Safety" we all can ride within capablity of the machine as it is. They did in the past.
Otherwise they will turn up with 2006 bits on board. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 25 Jun 2007 11:04:51 PM |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 1:27:52 PM
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Just had a chat to Greg Johnson. He has the Syndicate Z1 but doesn't own it and it is not a goer. A.J. rode the thing. Sadly this one doesn't look promising. Greg does not have a computer and was totally unaware of what we are trying to achieve. Seems we need to use the old bush telegraph to contact likely runners. I am working on it but need all the help I can get. We really need to have a register of old riders so we know how to contact them. Come on guys, let's get one started. Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 1:34:55 PM
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Good work, maybe we can get it fixed.
By theway your proposal to teh HMRAV committee has been accepted, lets talk. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 1:42:14 PM
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Just had another thought (headache coming). Essentially as I see it what we are looking for is a slight extension of the rules to allow bikes that don't quite sqeeze into P5 to have something to race in - hence my earlier suggestions re frames,forks etc. Within the existing bikes could we not have P4 bikes running on slicks? Call it Golden Era or something similar and open it up for all. Is this too simple? Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 1:47:25 PM
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| The hmrav is looking at a separate golden era event, so we need to avoid that.I think it will be easier to stay within the period than muck about trying to appease the whole world. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 6:55:28 PM
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I don't think it's a matter of 'appeasing the whole world', however the 'whole world' idea has some merit. Perhaps we should look at having rules that would a ccomodate international riders. It'd be worth having a look at what the classes are for superbikes up to about 1985, in Europe and the USA? The yanks in particular have coped with 'cheaters' for years. If the rules are smart enough, they'll encourage entries by making it easy to compete! They'll also draw people from overseas.
As far as Johnno is concerned, we could do worse than help him onto something fairly quick, and get him up there with Phillis, before Rob gets involved with something else. If we can get a few good A graders onto Historic Super bikes , others will come! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 7:03:25 PM
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I suggest the rules for 'Historic Superbike' should accomodate the biggies from P4 and P5, as well as what's now known as P6 (aircooled four strokes). If you change a P4 or P5 bike so that it doesn't fit normal historic period rules, you would limit yourself to the Superbike class.
The rules should specify the limitations regarding forks, tyres and brakes so that mods which increase safety are allowed - these should be clearly specified.
I suggest we need a special interest group to control the rules!
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Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 7:11:14 PM
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John, About JIm Eade's SFC Laverda. A few years ago he told me it was straight out of the crate, the only mod was alcohol jetting. I believe the year of the race at Phillip Island was about 1972, and the fuel was probably still legal.
Anyone with a memory will remember the SFC blitzing Decker and Hone!
Give Jim a ring sometime, he'll tell you about it.
Unfortunately I've forgotten the rider's name, but you guys all know him (he's Italian - at least the name is). He still comes here from NSW and rides a 500cc Rudge Ulster and is very quick! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 7:14:48 PM
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The comment about looking at the US is interesting - if you check the AHMRA website, you will find that the Americans run their 'Vintage Superbike' class with *extremely* tight rules. They basically manage the details to the Nth degree x 100....... I guess this keeps protests to a minimum, but I am not sure this approach would work here, due to the smaller number of competitors in Oz.
I have had a bit of a scan through the library, and there is a good story in the January 1973 issue of Two Wheels, about the 2 Italian superbikes in the country at that time - one of which was a Laverda SF-C 750. This bike was one that had been imported by Stan Evans - he used to run Stanco in Melbourne, who were the aussie importers of Laverda at that time.
There is no mention in this article of the 750 being raced at Phillip Is, this test was done however at PI. Unfortunately the tester's name was not mentionted in this issue. There is mention of a previous test done in December 1971 - I will have a further look for that issue. Hopefully I will also find some further references to the Jim Eade SF-C that raced against the kwakka nines - I think this might have been a couple of years later ? Maybe 1974-75...
cheers
Dave
cheers
Dave |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
Edited by - Gosling1 on 26 Jun 2007 7:53:25 PM |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 7:22:33 PM
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| The man with the fastest Triumph 650 in Australia told me the rider of Jim Eades SFC was Vic Vasella! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 7:28:40 PM
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If the AHRMA and UK rules are tighter than ours, that's good. It means they can compete at OUR meetings if our rules are looser. I suggest we should try to make it EASY to join the class, rather than worry too much about who's got a bit of advantage.
It doesn't matter what the rules say, the guys with the big bankrolls will still have the Racetech Gold Valves, the trickest compounds etc. It's like fitting RS125 cartridges into P3 Norton Forks - who really gives a tinkers? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 8:07:41 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
The man with the fastest Triumph 650 in Australia told me the rider of Jim Eades SFC was Vic Vasella!
And the other one was Jeff Curly, at Hume Weir in 1973 or 74(?) perhaps. |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 4:00:55 PM
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Jeff Curley was on the Stanco Laverda at about that time. The guy who reminded me about Vic Vasella is the owner of Jeff's old Triumph, and his partner in crime!
How about calling Historic Superbikes, 'Muscle Bikes'? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 7:04:31 PM
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I saw an article on that Triumph that Jeff Curley used to ride, it was an old AMCN, and it was a story about the Hume Weir races......apparently at Bathurst that old trumpy was also very succesful.......
The December 1971 issue was a test of the sports SF model only. The stock bike came without air-filters !!!
Anyway, better get back on-topic, have waffled on long enough about old Laverda's :-)
cheers |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
Edited by - Gosling1 on 27 Jun 2007 7:06:03 PM |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 09:27:34 AM
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| Jeff's old triumph has been refettled, and is absolutely beautiful. I rode it at CAlder in the 70s. My own 500cc Triumph always had trouble with H2 Kawasakis with chambers. There was a particular guy in C grade who always finbished ahead of me. We were out practising, and I came around gloweave beside him. The 650 Triumph blew him off in a straight line, and as I reached the end of the front straight I heard banging and crashing behind me, he had fallen off under brakes. I raced against that old 650 triunph for about ten years, I could never get ahead of it on my 500cc short stroker. It IS actually fast for a triumph, and it never gets revved over 6,300! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 10:24:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
How about calling Historic Superbikes, 'Muscle Bikes'?
I think it needs to be referenced to the era. The yanks have called their series 'Vintage Superbikes', and I think this is a good descriptor of the actual age and 'type' of bike that this series is looking to attract.
Although, I think it will be difficult to attract bikes as they were raced in the era.....there are not many CB1100RB's out there in race trim, plenty of GSX1100-based 'specials', and anyone who wants to race an XS1100 should be directed straight to the Medical shed for a mental checkup 
cheers
Dave
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".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 11:12:09 AM
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| I have heard of a Yamaha XS1100 or 1300 shaft drive machine being prepared. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 2:31:52 PM
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| Vintage Superbikes doesn't sound too bad. It'd be good if we moved away from the 'historic' name. Classic Superbikes might be a better name. The 'historic' tag seems to indicates degree of authenticity, that the races are a 're-creation' . I don't believe they'll ever be that! The series will be retro-racing, if we're honest about it! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 3:04:50 PM
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Can you blokes cut it out.
I have registered "Historic Superbikes" deliberately to capitalise as I said right at the start on the popularity of modern Superbikes.
Life is too short at the moment to be arguing over the name when we dont even have a series of blokes ready to race. When we have a group ready I will use a different name if then people reckon the original idea is no good.
Pleasde give me some peace.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 6:21:03 PM
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no worries mate, I'm happy to leave it in your capable hands.
An XS1100 really being prepared ?? bloody hell !! Does anyone remember the Pitmans Yamaha XS1100 that Greg Pretty rode ? It had a chain-drive conversion, and was about 45kg lighter than the stock boat-anchor....
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".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 7:26:29 PM
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| Registering the name 'Historic Superbikes' was a good thing to do, it means we have a good fallback position. The only reason I got involved in trying to think up a name was due to promotional considerations. The 'Forgotten Era International Challenge' is a really good name, whoever thought that up did good (I've seen the latest Classic Racer - GOOD STUFF!). I suggest we need a name that doesn't sound tired, and something that will inspire bikie spectators to come and get enthused. We need to attract the poms, yanks, etc. I suggest we should try to get the series onto satellite TV eventually. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Gosling1
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
52 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 7:55:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
....... I suggest we should try to get the series onto satellite TV eventually.....
 lets get the Supp Regs sorted first eh ? 
(Global Domination awaits !! ) |
".....we're gonna get it this time......he had his indicator on....." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2007 : 9:32:19 PM
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AAAAAARRRRRRHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets get some blokes and bikes first.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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fastsuzuki
Level 2 Member
Victoria
20 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2007 : 10:09:18 PM
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| Alan, why are you pushng the barrow of "more A Graders ' out there, is the racing not exciting enough? This class already has 2 divisions of racer participating. The old guys that have been riding since the late 70's early 80'g i.e Guesty and are competitive racers and those that come into the period for a bit of fun on bikes that they were familiar with. quality of the racing is based on equal and competitive machinery and the willingness of the rider. Are you saying that you want to see old A graders just riding around. My view is that the class is progressing very well and is seen as the premier historic class at the moment with some skilled riders participating. By the way does anyone realise that the first 4 placegetters at the recent Winton meeting were on 2 valve machines? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2007 : 04:21:04 AM
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Who are the 'drawcards' in historic racing? What are the names known to the general public? A couple of years ago we had Barry Sheene and Wayne Gardner involved, even Ago turned up at Phillip Island. Do you believe we really capitalised on their presence? Most 'normal' people didn't even know they were there!
The Forgotten Era International Challenge etc. has great potential to pull a decent crowd of spectators and even get TV coverage. If you want your sport to be promoted and grown, where do we go from here? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2007 : 04:26:36 AM
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| I do realise the place getters at Winton were on two valve machines. The races with Peter Guest, Karl Korp, and Scott Webster were great! I also noticed none of the crowd walked away while the bikes were on! There's a lot of potential there to develop the sport into something really spectacular. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2007 : 07:14:00 AM
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The potential will never be realised when riders just wait for events to land on their laps. This proposal will only move forward when the riders start to show interest and commitment.
The prize money is still on the table but it will not be there if they remain silent for 12 months.
The promotional work with the sidecars has shown a result, so I know promotion works.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 05 Jul 2007 7:01:56 PM |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2007 : 5:01:25 PM
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I believe we need a special interest group to get this idea up and running. It should be 'stand alone' as the PCRA used to be. I'm interested in getting involved, but it's pretty difficult from Benalla. If someone can think of a confortable venue in SE Melbourne, I'll travel down for meetings - should have meal and bar facilities etc. Somewhere near Southland would be good.
P.S. I'm currently building a bike for this class, I believe it has potential for reasonably priced competitive racing. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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fastsuzuki
Level 2 Member
Victoria
20 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2007 : 6:16:53 PM
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| Alan, there is a significant problem with 'special interest groups'as generally the only people who turn up and participate have a special interest and it may not be to the benefit of the whole. The ideal forum is at the track and I know the carguys have informal meetings at the circuit to discuss 'class' racing from which the delegates take further up the food chain. We, the riders are the 'show' and I believe this is taken for granted by promoters. All of us race for the fun, some just a bit faster than others. I know John has promoted sidecars vigorously, but!!! participation and spectator interest is very small compared to the solos (that should stir the pot). I command your final comment on reasonably priced competitive racing, my bike makes 95 hp a long way from the claims of some of the 'faster' riders |
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