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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
 Posted - 24 May 2009 : 2:14:18 PM
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| Everyone, particularly those who are racing period 5 should respond. In particular to the notion of extending period 5 up until 31 December 1982. They claim no technical advantage is gained by this move but this ignores the debacle involving the J model kawasaki in which it was claimed one bike was in Australia on the 13th or something of December 1981, you couldn't buy one then but it was too late, too many were being raced with the advantage of a dramatically improved head. How many other unknowns are there out there? I believe this will result in a number of people pulling out because it will mean their bike will become uncompetitive, further adding pressure on limited fields. |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 10:10:24 AM
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The idea of Cycle cars needs attension.
Some new styles are being built that dont represent anything from the past.
Perhapsd a compromise would be to insist that any 'new' cyclecar must be a copy of a pre existing one.
Period 6 would introduce machines that are so far from Classic machines that the whole Historic sector may chnage for the worse.
Let modern clubs run P6, they are closer to them. Otherwise it will become like the Historic car business where the nice old cars are pushed to the background by tin tops etc. |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 7:40:46 PM
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Cycle cars are a very interesting subject - can you please [oldonk ] leed me to a few photos of a pre existing one.
I have lots of photos from France but nothing from Australia.
Thank you in advance. |
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revhd
Level 2 Member
Victoria
108 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 12:31:45 PM
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Posted - 27 May 2009 : 10:10:24 AM
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Olddonk said
Period 6 would introduce machines that are so far from Classic machines that the whole Historic sector may chnage for the worse.
I do not agree,i bet you said that when p5 came in,if you stop moving with the times the whole historic scene will grind too a halt.
To keep spectators coming to historic events they want good racing!!!!!! p6 will deliver that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2009 : 2:24:36 PM
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As a matter of fact Oldonk was instrumental in introducing P5 in Victoria before he moved.
I believe there is a case for the modern promoting clubs to run with P6. In Victopria Preston and Hartwell do not see many machines from that period. Preston could certainly do with additional machine numbers at their meetings. Adoption of P6 and 'Pre-modern " which they run now may be best for everybody.
I can say the HMRAV committee has wondered how we could fit in an additional 6 races to our full program of about 44 events.
At Historic Winton we have 52 entries already in teh P4 and P5 event, with a grid limit less. So we cannot fit P6 in to Winton for the time being without pushing out something else which has also been a problem the carries have had as well.
Do you exclude pre 1945 war bikes to fit in post Iraq war bikes?
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 22 Jun 2009 4:39:57 PM |
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pommiejohn
Level 1 Member
Queensland
7 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2009 : 4:17:30 PM
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Is everyone aware that MA have banned Dell Orto pumper carbs for period 4?
Look at rule 16.6.4.3 All power jet carburettors and all other carburettors that are fitted with any form of auxiliary/primary jet mounted so as to feed into the air stream prior to the main carburettor body.
This wording can be interpreted to include accelerator pumps, and MA have given a ruling to our club ( QEMSC) that it does ban the use of Dell Orto PHF and PHM carbs.
That's bad news for all Ducati, Laverda and Guzzi riders. And me, I've got them on my bike.
I put in a rule change proposal ( see MA minutes above) to change the rule but it was rejected. I can't imagine why they want to ban these carbs and force Italian bikes to use japanese carbs, but that's what they have done.
I suggest we need to comment on these minutes and get them to change their minds. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2009 : 4:40:33 PM
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| Were they around within the period? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2009 : 4:44:36 PM
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RevHed, I am looking for the proof that P6 bikes would offer better racing than any other group of bikes at a meeting.
Historic racing is based on factors other than spectator interest.
Anyway, P6 can race now if they wanted.
The problem is they just dont turn up in Victoria anywhere, but tehy are welcome at Modern meetings right now.
Making them "Historic" may not pull any more out anyway.
My view is when they are appearing they should be considered.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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pommiejohn
Level 1 Member
Queensland
7 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2009 : 4:55:16 PM
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"Were they around within the period?
""
Yes. That's the crazy thing. I think they came in towards the end of the period, but the ruling bans all accelerator pump carbs. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2009 : 5:13:36 PM
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| Can you get evidence to me. Sometimes if things are very late or exceptional, ie TZ 350 etc and 900 kwakas were banned from the period they actually appeared |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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pommiejohn
Level 1 Member
Queensland
7 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2009 : 6:13:15 PM
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Here's just one that I found in a couple of minutes of searching ther internet.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Various dell ortos with pumps were used on every Guzzi twin, laverda twin and most Ducatis.
You just have to look up the tech spec of the laverda SF750, Guzzi V7 etc which were well within the period.
CVheers
John |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2009 : 10:23:22 PM
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At the risk of sounding like a smart **** there is a proper procedure for changing rules and the first thing to do is to respond to Commission minutes in writing stating your case and if necessary providing "period proof" to back your comments. If you feel strongly about any issues there is a Forum being held in Sydney this coming weekend where you will be invited to state your case on many issues. The last Forum held in Melbourne a few years ago was very productive and took a lot of the backbiting and bitching out of the sport that was happening at the time.
Hope that helps a little but in short dont be afraid to put your case to MA, they do listen.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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pommiejohn
Level 1 Member
Queensland
7 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2009 : 08:26:29 AM
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Did you read my post?
I put in a rule change proposal, it's there in the minutes.
It was rejected on the grounds that the current wording is adequate for the intent.
As for MA listening. I'll tell you the whole story.:
When I first noticed this rule in June last year , I sent an email to MA asking for a clarification and I never got a reply.
Our club then sent a letter to MA in Septemember '08 asking for clarification and we recieved a reply 6 months later and only 2 days before the deadline for rule changes.
Since the proposal was rejected I have emailed MA asking them what is the "intent of the rule" ( the basis on which it was rejected0. I have not had a reply.
I'm not "backbiting and bitching" ( whatever that means) I have been through the proper channels and provided evidence.
At the same meeting they approved non period Amal carbs for period 3, they approve non period Keihin carbs for period 4, so don't tell me that because the Dell Ortos came out towards the end of period 4 , they should be banned because they are not indicative of the period.
Almost every Ducati , Laverda and Guzzi rider uses these carbs already. They have been fitted on these bikes since 1972 at least, and banning them means a load more expense and hassle for the riders.
At the same meeting , MA discussed concerns that as riders got older the sport would lose numbers unless new riders are encouraged to join. Well banning loads of bikes that are already racing won't help that cause. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2009 : 09:04:34 AM
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It does not seem correct.
I will be attending the Sydney forum, do you want me to ask about the matter. If so do you have any more info I should present? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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pommiejohn
Level 1 Member
Queensland
7 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2009 : 09:33:05 AM
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"It does not seem correct.
I will be attending the Sydney forum, do you want me to ask about the matter. If so do you have any more info I should present?
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Thanks John, but our club will be represented there. They will be bringing it up.
I think that what has happened has been a bit of a misunderstanding, and some badly written text.
My take on the matter is this:
The original rule said that "All Power jet carburettors" were not permitted.
For those of you not into 2 strokes, "Powerjet" is a Mikuni trade name for a carb they introduced in 1976 for TZs and the like. They have an extra main jet that give full throttle enrichment. They ARE non period and are the ones that were rightly banned.
However, Keihin and ( I think) Lectron made similar models but were not , strictly speaking "Powerjet".
I believe MA tightened up the wording of the rule to include these non period carbs, but unwittingly included all accelerator pump carbs too.
I'd be happy to hear from MA to see if I'm right, but so far they've not replied to any e mails. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2009 : 09:37:42 AM
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| OK I shall hold fire and let those who know the details bring it up. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2009 : 8:38:40 PM
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disconnecting the pumper mechanism was the go some years back for P3,where the wording was all "concentric" types were permitted,as the dellortos are indeed of concentric construction!,moreso the 2 stroke version,which obviously has the pumper section blanked in the casting,of which i have a pair with a thought to trying on my P4 350 HONDA, guess thats out the window for now??
hmmmm ,if you can't beat them,ban them!!,to wit
the Ken Lucas Memorial trophy winner,& all P4 unlimited races at the easter Barry Sheene,
gee, pity the hondas don't run them too eh??,guess that will level the playing feild again,(not) |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2009 : 11:34:38 PM
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false alarm folks  ,our northern brethren misinterpered power jet carby rulings  ,delorto pumpers cool for P4  , |
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pommiejohn
Level 1 Member
Queensland
7 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2009 : 08:57:01 AM
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Mick, I hear that at the forum, MA confirmed that pumper carbs are OK. However, we "Northern brethren" did not misinterpret the rule. We had it in writing from MA that pumpers were banned after we asked for a clarification.
Anyway
all's well that ends well.
Cheers
John
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2009 : 12:05:23 PM
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| If you had it from Ross Martin, you may find he will not be able to give a personal opinion again. |
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pommiejohn
Level 1 Member
Queensland
7 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2009 : 2:33:30 PM
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| What do you mean? |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2009 : 5:03:46 PM
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| There where many complaints about Ross interpreting things without consultation |
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