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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 3:36:05 PM
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Some time ago I floated the idea of an extra event at Winton. I had more support from NSW than Vic.
So nothing came of it.
But I have been thinking again and have another idea.
With another club, say Preston, we could run a combined event with each era being managed by the relevant club.
Preston get up to 70 machines at Winton, the HMRAV gets about 100 machines, so the potential combination would be good.
If We also catered for the Pre moderns which essentially are 1981- 1995 machines, the Inter club attracts about 20 of them we could have 190 machines.
With good promotion and running it as an inter club and one event licences we may produce a result that surprise everybody.
My committee has stated they would help out only if extra people took on the role of assisting to manage it.
What are your thoughts please?
Also please dont dream about alternative events etc, [u]it will be ignored[u] just whether you will be prepared to enter such an event. I would expect we would fit in between the existing events.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 28 Aug 2009 9:27:21 PM |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 8:03:59 PM
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| I'm in |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 12:29:42 AM
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| When were you thinking of holding the event? I believe we need something to replace Bathurst Easter! It would be good if the Austin 7 club could get the Easter date at Winton, then we could possibly get Terry O'Neill to run Formula Extreme or an Australian Historic TT and GP on the Monday. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 07:32:40 AM
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Not interested in Easter or Terry O'neiul.
This is a club only concept.
Are you in or are you out Glen 20? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 7:41:07 PM
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 I'm in! |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 06:39:52 AM
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| I want the ride, but not if it's the same old format. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 07:14:36 AM
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Will you again be running 'period' races with all capacity classes in together? I'm not going to spend time and money on that!
We've already had this discussion! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 09:26:33 AM
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Glen 20, we are not accepting terms and conditions at the moment.
We may look at something but only if written submissions are made to tye club. So if you want to submit details of an alternative program of events write something clear and concise and sewnd it to me. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 10:03:18 AM
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| I'll send you a complete programme for an Australian Historic TT and GP event1 |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 1:03:27 PM
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| great |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 12:20:51 PM
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I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING AROUND AND HERE ARE SOME PROGRAMS FROM THE USA WHICH HAS A GOOD TURN OUT OF MACHINES.THERE HAS BEEN QUITE EXCITEMENT AND INTEREST IN THIS CONCEPT. SO PLEASE DONT JUMP THE GUN, THERE HAS TO BE MUCH DISCUSSION BEFORE ANYTHING AHPPENS.
I DO NOT WANT A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT SORT OF BIKE WILL DO WELL AGAINST ANOTHER SORT, I DONT WANT TO KNOW IF SO AND SO BIKES WOULD BE BETTER IF THE RULES WERE CHANGED A LITTLE BIT MORE.
I JUST WANT YOU TO COMMENT ABOUT THE GEMERAL CONCEPT AND ANY PARTICULAR EVENT YOU THINK WOULD SUIT YOURSELF.
PLEASE WRITE SOMETHING IF YOU ARE A LURKER, I NEED INFORMATION BEYOND GLEN 20 AND JOHN FEAKES.
OTHERWISE MY COMMITTEE WILL JUST SO NO.
MODERN ROADRACE CLASSES
Sound of Singles® (SOS)
Super Mono 2: Four-valve four-strokes to 510cc and two-valve four-strokes to 610cc.
Super Mono™: Unlimited displacement four-strokes.
Production Singles. Single-cylinder four-stroke motorcycles that are or were available for sale to the general public and intended for street use in the U.S.
Two-Stroke Singles: Two-stroke singles to 550cc.
Battle of Twins® (BOT)
Formula 3 Twins: Pushrod OHV twins to 1000cc, OHC 2- or 3-valve to 800cc and OHC liquid-cooled 4-valve to 650cc.
Formula 2 Twins: Pushrod OHV machines to 1250cc, liquid-cooled OHC to 750cc, air-cooled 2-valve to OHC to 1000cc and air-cooled 4-valve to 1000cc.
Formula 1 Twins: No displacement limits. Engine modifications are unlimited, except on water-cooled 4-valve twins over 900cc.
Open Two-Stroke: Air-cooled machines to 500cc, water-cooled motorcycles with tubular frame to 400cc and modern 250cc GP type machines.
Sound of Thunder®
Unlimited displacement four-stroke singles; 4-valve demo twins to 1000cc, OHC twins to 1100cc and pushrod twins to 1350cc; three-cylinder machines to 1000cc; and twin-rotor rotary engines.
From AMraa again VINTAGE RACING CLASSES
Race class options: The following classes are available. Check the AHRMA Handbook for complete details of class requirements.
Class
500 Premier: 500cc four-stroke OHV and OHC, or 750cc sidevalve machines built before the end of 1968.
350 Grand Prix: 350cc four-stroke machines; 350cc air-cooled, single-cylinder, two-strokes with no more than five speeds; 250cc two-stroke water-cooled singles; 250cc twin-cylinder air-cooled two-strokes with no more than six speeds. Machines must have been built before Dec. 31, 1968.
250 Grand Prix: 250cc four-stroke machines; 250cc air-cooled, maximum five-speed, single-cylinder two-strokes; 175cc two-stroke water-cooled singles; 175cc air-cooled, twin-cylinder, two-stroke machines with no more than six speeds. Machines must have been built before Dec. 31, 1968.
200 Grand Prix: This class combines a variety of engine designs and displacements between 125cc and 250cc, based on an index of performance.
Formula 750: Works 750cc four-stroke machines, including accurate replicas of Formula 750 machines of the early 1970s. Also includes machines not eligible for Sportsman 750.
Formula 500: Two-stroke and certain four-stroke machines up to 500cc grouped on an index-of-performance basis, with a Dec. 31, 1972, cutoff.
Formula 250: Two-stroke air-cooled machines, including singes up to 360cc and twins up to 250cc, with a Dec. 31, 1972, cutoff.
Formula 125: Certain machines up to 125cc, with a Dec. 31, 1972, cutoff.
Formula Vintage: Open to machines from 500 Premier, F-750, Formula 500 and Sportsman 750.
BEARS®: Certain two-cylinder machines built up through 1968 and competing under Formula 750 specifications.
Class C: Intended for AMA "Class C" machines up to and including those manufactured December 31, 1951, as a ‘51 model. Class C Handshift is a championship class run together with but scored separately from Class C.
Pre-1940 Grand Prix: 1940 and earlier Grand Prix or modified street machines, including 500cc single-cylinder OHV and OHC and 750cc sidevalve machines.
Classic Sixties: A class for 1960 and earlier (or like model) Grand Prix/Clubman 500cc four-stroke OHV and OHC machines, or 750cc sidevalve, in basically standard form. Plus 350cc OHV and OHC. Classic Sixties 650 is open to British and European OHC 650cc machines of the period and the Harley-Davidson KH.
Sportsman: Four-stroke, maximum three-cylinder streetbike-based machines, divided into 350cc, 500cc and 750cc classes. The cutoff is Dec. 31, 1972.
Novice Historic Production 1972 and earlier production street machines with the standard OEM frame, swingarm, forks and handlebar mounts. Engines use the original OEM bore and stroke. Classes are Lightweight (four-strokes up to 500cc, 250cc two-strokes and certain 350cc two-strokes) and Heavyweight (four-strokes up to 750cc and 350-500cc two-strokes).
Sidecar: 750cc four-stroke, twin-cylinder, or 500cc two-stroke, air-cooled, twin-cylinder powerplants. Rules available from the AHRMA national office.
Vintage Superbike. AHRMA's newest roadrace category includes three classes for motorcycles built up to the 1982 model year and originally manufactured as street machines. Motorcycles are to be as close to "production" appearance as possible. Classes are Heavyweight (unlimited displacement twins and pushrod triples, and displacement-limited fours and sixes), Middleweight (unlimited displacement singles, with limited pushrod twins, OHC twins, pushrod triples and OHC fours) and Lightweight (singles, twins and multis using performance indexes for smaller bikes).
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 6:13:58 PM
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Geez john what are you up to? The supp regs will be bigger than the MoMs.
But the idea looks good, who will sort the arguments as to which machine goes where?
You mentioned it came from North America, at least they do try something different and it seems to work. Good luck with it!!! |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 09:43:23 AM
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| John, I believe you are going down the right path however I don't believe more rules is the answer, with one exception. We need a rule which separates four stroke singles and twins from the rest of the historic bikes when raced. The classes which you have listed encompass a whole lot of machines which never appear at historic meetings these days, and if they still exist there is potential to get them back into the sport. In particular there was a lot of 883 Harley Sportsters around which used to race in their own class. If they fit the cutoff date, they'd be great competition for period 5 ducatis in an unlimited 'TT' class. |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 4:41:35 PM
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| KISS PLEASE. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 9:30:52 PM
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What! in public or behind the shelter shed?
John I think it can be simple once all the hard work is done.
I have put the USA system up to show a difference and see if there is interest.
I think it can be easy if the initial data is set correctly. I dont like the yanks, but I give them credit for two things the space shuttle and a great range of historic bikes in racing. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 1:57:32 PM
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| Winton? If someone has something to sell, and you want to buy it, it might be difficult to get them to sell to you, if they really don't want to! |
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Historic
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
46 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 7:32:31 PM
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That's a bit cryptic Glen. I'll wait with baited breath for you to expand on this one.
On an Unrelated topic, I've read on another forum that Acotel has been banned again. I think that's the best news Historic racing has had in years.
What do you think Glen, ... , Glen?
Ah well must be a bit like Superman and Clarke Kent |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 08:02:36 AM
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| You guys have got some 'squaring off' to do! Benalla Auto Club hasn't forgotten 2003, when you came up and abused everyone in sight! Is this time going to be any different? |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 08:07:53 AM
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| You need to remember Benalla is a small country town, it's not the big smoke. You might have convenient memories, but nothing mich happens to divert people around Winton. They've got long memories. If you blot your copy book, it won't be forgotten. |
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Historic
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
46 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 10:07:08 AM
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I'm glad they haven't forgotten their Historic Championships. It is after all the only way to improve...remembering your mistakes. But I still think you and one other seem to have all the answers to the woes of historic racing in this country. So why not put on a meeting with everything rearranged as you have been describing on this and other forums.
Why is it up the HMRAV, or anybody else who actually puts on meetings to change what and how they do things when someone else can pick up your challenge and fix everything.
Yes the question was asked how to attract more people to race, but I don't think many agree with you that everything must change to make it happen. |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2009 : 10:10:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by glen20
You guys have got some 'squaring off' to do! Benalla Auto Club hasn't forgotten 2003, when you came up and abused everyone in sight! Is this time going to be any different?
Sorry that I am a newby to this Alan-Mick-glen20 but what actually happened. |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2009 : 10:43:58 PM
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Tell you what, Patrick, it was ugly. After the biggest dramatic interface in the history of CMA, with lots of drama, intrigue and subterfuge, much of it carried out under pseudonyms and cover of darkness, the titles of that year were, to be honest, a farce. Without wishing to dig up old dramas, there were things like : practice on Friday with ONE marshall (If you don't like it, **** off !); rescue vehicles driving on and off the track while Friday practice sessions were running, leaving trails of mud on corners you'd run through a lap ago, riders' meetings curtailed because the time to get practice under way had arrived, bikes torn down on the Sunday night outside the requirements of protest procedures : no memorabilia or T-shirts available or ordered : and a constant battle against the Ronke family to enjoy anything resembling a pleasant weekend of historic bike racing. On behalf of all WA entrants, I'd suggest that a worse weekend of roadracing would be difficult to replicate... |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2009 : 5:04:49 PM
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John,
Don't get distracted by Glen, lets move on and get this meeting going. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2009 : 7:28:03 PM
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| Old kwak I have been trying to work out with others some way of encouraging Kawa9's to be at thsi meeting. Do you want to ring to discuss cut off dates etc taht may help thgem. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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