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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2009 : 8:01:07 PM
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I've been assiduously checking the natsoft site, but can't find any mention of the historic nats (they covered a car meeting there last weekend), but to no avail. All competitors are fitted with transponders, so who knows whether the info will surface ? All I can reveal so far, from garbled long-distance phone calls to competitor buddies, is the result of the P3 500 championship race from Saturday afternoon, race 17 :
1. Paul Dobbs Norton ES2
2. Glen Kelleher BSA/Norton
3. Tony Hynes Vinton
4. Keith Campbell AJS
5. Bruce Marston BSA Gold Star
6. Laurie Turnbull Norton ES2
7. Ian Glover 450 Ducati
8. Tony Glazebrook Norton 88.
Also heard that Glenn Hindle won both Saturday's P4 350 races, hotly pursued by Keith Campbell. And that some desperado knocked Ken Lucas off his G50 today, GRRRRR.....
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2009 : 11:23:17 PM
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| good effort |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2009 : 11:47:12 PM
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Yep, too right John. And look, Glen20, Bruce Marston has knocked off Laurie Turnbull for 5th on his Goldie ! So let's get stuck in mate, enter for the Southern Classic, and let's go for it in some in-depth and serious bench racing !
Regards GD.
Great work Keith, go hard, son ! |
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jvdairlie
Level 2 Member
Queensland
48 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2009 : 4:45:06 PM
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I just got home from the Nat Historics. What an event! 250+ bikes/sidecars entered, great weather, exceptionally well run meeting. Met lots of old friends and made many new ones.
Anyone know yet where the 2010 Nationals are to be held? |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2009 : 6:25:34 PM
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| Good stuff James, how did the Duke go for you ? |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2009 : 07:27:07 AM
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Thanks, Bernie. And congratulations on the win, mate. Ripper ! |
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revhd
Level 2 Member
Victoria
108 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2009 : 11:01:10 AM
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i got 3rd p3 lightweight,,4th p5 125 ultra lightweight championships
Good meeting well run,good weather and a safe trip home,cannot ask for more |
125 alliance |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2009 : 9:02:28 PM
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Yes, it was a fantastic meeting and I was very happy with my 4th place. I just wonder why they could not recognise the non-title races. I mean, we all only race for plastic trophies (although the title trophies were very nice at Warick) and it seems to me that the least that an organiser could do (especially at a National Title meeting) would be to offer a small plastic trophy as a recognition of the effort that people put into racing. We have all been involved with clubs that organise National Titles and I don't believe that the cost of trophies should be a problem so why don't they. Many gave this feedback last year in Perth but clearly it was not heard then - wonder if it will be before the next Nationals?
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2009 : 10:11:11 PM
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| Ronnie from Victoria broke something again - should not have retired mate! |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2009 : 10:17:12 PM
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It's Historic Racing - you should never retire ! Just stop riding when you feel you need a rest, and then get stuck in later on when you feel the urge.
Race-by-race results are now published on the club website, You must be logged in to see this link.
Well done to the promoting clubs, and to the riders who travelled, for making it a good nats '09. |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2009 : 10:30:59 PM
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According to MOMS:
quote:
16.12.1.2 The Australian Championship shall consist of
no more than 2 races per period per class.
Why???
All 4 races should be Championship events in my opinion. There's not a lot of incentive for Championship contenders to try hard in the non-champ events.
Bummers  |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2009 : 07:44:28 AM
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| Or even to ride in them. But people won't drag their bikes the width of the country for two rides either, Bernie. Put it up as a remit through your club, then we should be able to get it installed in about five years.... |
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revhd
Level 2 Member
Victoria
108 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2009 : 12:01:46 PM
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yes i agree with Bummers there should be at least 3 races for championships 1 sat 2 sunday gives everyone a fair chance that way.
Does anyone know where next years champs will be held?? we can start lobbying them now!
Yes poor old ronny threw it away again on thursday practice has broken some bones in his pelvis,,very painfull,i spoke to him on sunday,he said he was ok to get home. hope he did.
Get well soon ronny |
125 alliance |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2009 : 7:54:40 PM
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Yes, totally agree that it would be fantastic if all races contributed to the title. It would make it a lot more interesting and enable a comeback if you have a problem in one race.
I have heard that next year is going to be in Tasmania but I don't know if anyone confirm that?
Geoff
Sidecar @30 |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2009 : 10:15:19 AM
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Thanks for your encouragement GD66. The P3 Senior race on Sat saw Neil May and Bert Skuce have an off at turn 7 on the "hectic" first lap. I was in a watching position in 6th from the off. Holy S**t was it on at the 1st - 6th corner. Way out in front was Paul Dobbs(NZ) but the rest of us were all Handlebar to Bar with Glen Kelleher not getting away from the jump. Bert roared into 2nd into the first series of 3 corners over the blind left over the crest heading toward turn 4 RHander, in front was Kelleher,Skuce,Hynes and May me trailling just behind. Exiting T4 lines were non existent with bikes jostling through LH sweeper then into turn 6RHander with just as much biffo between Hynes and Skuce again. It was a big Cohuna effort by Bert up the inside into turn 7 on Hynes but it was never really going to end happily. Hynes was punted off into the Roo,snake and spider infested landscape with Bert and subsuquently May with nowhere to go both down and out.
Bert was knocked out and Neil suffered a w/ending collarbone fracture. Low and behold i find myself in 3rd!!
Red flags eventually came out when i had reached turn 4 on lap 2 with both riders still down when i went past.
Re started C/Ship Leg 1 on sat show your results above as correct. Me and Hynes on the Vincent had a great dice throughout with Tony's pass on the front straight last lap saw him hold me for the rest of the last lap to take 3rd. I was very happy with our ESO's performance.
Leg 2 Sun C/ship race same result in P1 and P2 but i turned 4th into 3rd on the last lap at turn 6 and held Hynes off for 3rd O/all in the C/ships.
Had a good w/e with all the usual suspects and would also like to know where 2010 Titles are.
See you at Broadford,
Cheers Keith. |
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keith roberts
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 4:10:11 PM
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re number of races to count towards Championship.
1 race - when it was just a single race there were always some riders who had had bike problems earlier in the meeting and could not start the Championship race - forget that option
2 races - this allows for 2 setting-up rides on the Saturday where rider and bike can get "sorted" for the 2 Sunday races. Combined results from the 2 races to decide winner. Saturday races are usually shorter to allow for the time used for morning practice
3 races - perhaps 1 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday or all 3 on Sunday with minimal "practice" on the Sunday. All 3 races to be same length? may have time constraints. One short plus 2 longer races? All 3 to count, or best 2 results from 3?
4 races - 2 on Saturday, 2 on Sunday, all 4 to count or best 3 from 4? cuts into Saturday practice if the " normal" programme remains with there being both non-title and title races. delete all races other than Championship races on both Saturday and Sunday, should allow plenty of time for a 4-race championship with a couple of "sighting laps" for each class.
there are many options, each with its own set of pros and cons. the only way to make any change would be to have a concerted approach to the promoter, and for the promoter to then convince MA that the format is achievable within the time constraints of the meeting ( ie lap times, lap lengths, proposed number of laps per race, number of classes etc) There are no formal rules that preclude any combination as long as there are at least 2 title races per class. approach your own club committee, get a consensus from your club, get the clubs to forward their "competitors" proposal to the state body and get your state body to contact MA , and , if possible, the title-meeting promoter. it won't happen overnight, it won't happen without some moves from competitors, but if the current system is not what the majority wants, the majority will have to do something about it.
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 7:39:21 PM
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Hmmm it seems my innocent question about a small trophy for non-title races has elicited a few bigger thoughts. I certainly agree that including all races to decide the title would be attractive to me. I also agree that there are many combinations in between but I don't necessarily want to change the world. All I was thinking was that at a National Title it seems ludicrous that half of the races should constitute display laps. But having said that, and having read the other comments, perhaps the next Nationals organiser could show some initiative and try a different format - I reckon it could be fun.
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2009 : 10:36:28 PM
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Geoff,
i don't think it is up to the the "the next Nationals organiser" but it is a ruling of MA.
If you want the rule changed it has to go through "the system" which takes about 18n months. And I assume has to get officially to them.
How?...
there is probably a way - it is a democratic procedure
Does anyone know it?
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“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 08:36:39 AM
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That's probably what it'll take. Another option would perhaps be to approach through the alleged Historic Commission, and ask them to get feedback from either historic competitors, nationals-eligible organising clubs or both, and make a decision on it. Personally I have no problem with non-points races, but I think the main thing to avoid is what happened at Mount Gambier in 2006, where a bumper crowd poured in on the Sunday, only to be let down by many upper-grade riders not fronting for the afternoon races, the only downer to an outstanding weekend.
However, Mount Gambier ran a series of trophies based on the combined results of all four of your races for the weekend, so that aspect was well covered.
Don't forget also, there will be a resulting group of riders who will whinge that four points races is too much for their poor historic bikes to be expected to last for on one weekend...... |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 8:25:43 PM
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I will stick my neck out here and suggest that those who winge are those that are the 'sheep station' hunters...
But back to the discussion, I did not realise that there had to be a rule change for something different to happen! I thought the rules were the minimum. I certainly cannot find anything in the rules that say that additional races cannot attract recognition and (as has already been mentioned) we gave a cumulative award for the non-title races at Mt Gambier so I assume that was within the rules. When I suggested the next organiser might use some initative I meant just that - I don't think we need to change the world!
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 11:02:38 PM
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The RULE currently is as I quoted before: "16.12.1.2 The Australian Championship shall consist of
no more than 2 races per period per class."
So as far as the championship points go, at present, it has to be over only 2 heats.
As we are talking about the 1 annual Australian title Championship meeting, I'd like to see
either
4 "heats" over the weekend with at least 3 contributing to championship points. Maybe the 1st race could be a non champ race as a warm up, then a couple of championship, say 6 lap, heats & a 10 lapper championship heat 3 as the finale.
Or ...
A non-champ race on the Friday arvo to determine grids and on Saturday 2 shorter Championship heats. On Sunday another practice session with a longer Championship race, heat 3, later.
Then have the presentation earlier (than Warwick) say at about 3.30PM. Trophies could be awarded for all events in addition to the MA Aust Championship medallions for the Championship points place-getters.
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“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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vinton
Level 2 Member
Western Australia
42 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2009 : 11:52:20 PM
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| hi first time on a forum so plase forgive any spelling errors. a spot on acount of p3 racing by keith yes it was very much game on right off the bat.farings coping a batterng and nerves tested .A though on the race program for the title weekend .I think that 2 qualifing first up best time from the 2 get your start postion then 3 champ races this is the same amount of events for the organizing club to get through but they all mean something and all bikes will be out in all event and having a red hot go not wating for the 2 champ races and no countbacks. |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2009 : 9:08:32 PM
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Welcome Tony, don't worry too much about the spelling, and don't look too hard on here for shining examples of grammar, syntax, alliteration, litotes or satire....and by the way, if you're interested in Queensland scenery, there are plenty of brochures...
BUT your suggestion for a possible format for the nats is as good as any, what we need to do is to run it by either the majority of competitors, or the historic commission, for their recommendation to alter the current ruling of two heats per class, IF that's what the majority want. For years, racers have bleated and moaned and blamed MA for everything except JFK's assassination and the Franco-Prussian Alliance of 1822, but the fact is any alteration to existing legislation has to be done along club and association lines, and many of the contributors to this forum are club members, committee members or MA officials on a variety of levels. What we need is some guidance from those people towards the best way of not just finding the best way of finalising the nats format, but of implementing those changes. |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2009 : 9:13:35 PM
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Could I suggest that the people querying the format of National Championships have a read of the last two sets of Historic Road Race Commission Minutes, it might help answer some of your questions.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2009 : 10:30:50 PM
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Alan,
Thanks, I wasn't aware of this. I assume you mean these (from May 09 minutes-You must be logged in to see this link.):
quote:
HRR 434 National
Championships
The Commission believes that there should
be a laid down format for National
Championships to ensure consistency from
year to year. Practice, qualifying and grid
methodology should for example be the
same for each event. We recommend that
there should be a minimum of one practice
and one qualifying session for each class
and that grids should be arranged
progressively
The Commission recommends this
proposal
This is designed to ensure that each major
event is formatted similarly from year to year.
Action date: 2011
And
quote:
HRR 435 National
Championships
Comm Change rule 16.12.1.2 to read from 2 to 3
for each class
The Commission recommends this
proposal
This is to encourage competitors to compete
in each event rather than sit out non
Championship races as occurs at present
also providing a proper spectacle for the
paying public
SCBs 2011
Looks good to me! 3 heats for each class for 2011
It could still allow the organiser to run practice & qualifying on the Friday, the 1st 2 heats on the Saturday & a longer Heat 3 "finale" & have an earlier presentation on the Sunday. |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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