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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
 Posted - 29 May 2001 : 11:14:21 AM
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Had a ride at Winton last weekend. In discussion with a HMRAV member, I was told that we could have entered a period 5 machine in the post classic race, and run from the front of the grid. This is a bit different from what I was told while entering, when I was told that I could not run my TZ with the post classic machines.
Surely it's time we got a bit real, and allowed 350 and over two strokes (up to 1979) to run in unlimited post classic races. Also I suggest the cutoff date should be extended to 1985 for four strokes (for all capacity classes).
The 750 class should include two strokes of less than 350cc (up to 1979). All frames should be tubular steel, and only wheels of 18 inch and over should be allowed.
I think it's about time the Ducati owners got a turn at competing.
If you agree with the above concept, or disagree, please register and add your comments to this forum. I might be an old mole but I strongly believe classic racing could be much better than it is under the current formula. So please write your comments we'd love to hear from you.
Alfonso
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2001 : 11:37:58 AM
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one thing is if this "could" happen MAYBE we could see triumph/bsa three's come out againg with ducati's norton 850's,z900,gs1000and all those bikes that are still? parked in the back shed. why Hmrav tell different stories for their race meetings puzzles me. P5, are they still abled or not to be raced at classic meetings?? 
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Former Member
deleted
63 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2001 : 9:16:31 PM
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HMRAV will not run P5 races as I believe they dont class them as real historic bikes.
They begrugdeling let P4 race in their meetings as they know they would not have enough bikes to meet costs otherwise.
Please dont think I hate HMRAV,they have an interest in their field of bikes the same as I have in mine.
However it does concern me how they are going to run the Aussie titles as they have great diffuculties in getting the grids correct just for the Austin 7 & Southern Classic meetings.
As for the debate on what years and class of bikes that are egligable to race in P4 you can change it this way and that way and still not keep everyone happy. Why not run Divison 1 & 2 if the chaps who have less competative machines do not wish to spend heaps of bucks or God forbid get a 1500cc or whatever Honda. Then you still get a chance for trophys etc.
Now for the PCA. Yes I to when to the meeting at the Hartwell clubrooms and the next meeting at the pub in Hawthorn.
Nothing ever happened after that.
I tried to start a news letter and sent out a 10 page newsletter to everyone that was on the PCA list. (As far as I Know).
I also asked in the newsletter for articules, photos, debate whatever just to get this going.
Fantastic response 2 e-mails, a couple of phone calls, 2 letters and 1 of those from a poor lady whose husband had just passed away and asked for no further letters to be sent.
So what happened to PCA it died because of not enough support.
So if someone wants to get it going again goodluck. I will help. Also theres 2 or 3 grand in the bank under the PCA account.
No I do not have the money however it is in safe hands of the former/still current ?secretary.
TA |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2001 : 10:53:49 AM
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Trevor, your response is interesting. I don't know if we can resurrect the PCA. I'm currently trying to interest the Benalla Auto Club in starting a motorcycle group with a strong historic flavour. I've met with some support and a bit of resistance. Would the PCA members be interested in spending their money in getting BAC, MA affiliated, and running a couple of ride days at Winton?
Alfonso |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2001 : 11:34:11 PM
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Having recently returned to the sport{ post classic] I can see that the rules are set quite clearly, its just that they are not adhered too or enforced. I suspect if they did more machines would appear in the correct classes because people would not feel ripped off. The illegal machines could quite easily slip into forgotten or technically correct era
Team Dalrac Sidecar #68 |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2001 : 09:02:52 AM
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I believe that this is what should happen .John, make our bikes back to what they should be. I we run the bikes as to what was around in that time if I remember by 1972 only 810cc kits were here No 900 cranks and big bores,no im not against honda at winton there were 6 H2 kawas and the usual amount of T500's plus the others even a waterbottle! these are what was around in p-c racing yes i am for legal as was around in the years 1963 to 1972, BUT, who will take on the job to say what is and what is not?
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2001 : 5:39:05 PM
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I don't think we should create a situation where riders have to protest about over capacity machines. It would mean lockwiring engines and submitting to MA for measurement. I think we should cater for the oversize Hondas and let them run against TZ350/750's and other 1000cc four strokes, in an unlimited class. You're still going to get cheats in any 750 class, but we'll know who they are by their speed in a straight line.
Alfonso |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2001 : 6:25:48 PM
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You might be interested in the Canadian eligibilty formula for their vintage 'period 3'. It's pretty much what I've been advocating for some time. Have a look at:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Alfonso |
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Former Member
deleted
63 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2001 : 8:58:24 PM
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I have been racing in the P4 class since 1992, I believe the class started in 1984/85?.
The current rules have obviously been here for quite awhile, why the change them now!
If you look in the GCRs it does say 501-1300cc!
TA |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2001 : 09:18:41 AM
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Good to see your comments on this forum, Trevor. I don't have a problem with overbored Hondas, it's just that everything else doesn't go fast enough to compete on an equal footing. If we extend the Post Classic era to include 70's machines we should get enough to run 500, 750 and unlimited races. We should get better racing, and those guys who built the big Hondas will still win for a few years yet. It will be really difficult to beat Rex and Brian Neason, even if you've got a TZ750 in the shed.
(I want to see a few Ducati's get blown to the weeds by old British bikes, in a 750 class.)
Alfonso |
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Former Member
deleted
63 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2001 : 7:09:25 PM
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Not a bad idea having a 750cc class.It would help the British bikes.
Dont know how well you will go against Clive Hughes Kawasaki 750 triple!
TA |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2001 : 10:56:18 AM
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My proposal was for a 750 class for four strokes and up to 350 two strokes. The Unlimited would be for 'unlimited' four strokes and over 350 two strokes. This means the '750' class would include TZ250 Yamaha, triumphs, ducati 750 etc. The unlimited class would include TZ750, TZ350 Yamaha, Kawasaki 500, 750 triples, the big bore Hondas, that Harris framed Laverda, and Z900, and possibly GS1000 Suzukis.
Personally I'd sleeve down my Norton to run in the 750 class. You'd probably have to be off your brain to run in the unlimited class.
Alfonso |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2001 : 11:02:52 AM
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Talking about Ken Blake and post classic racing. In the mid seventies when Ken had the Jack Walters TZ750 and 350 Yamahas, he would never bring the TZ750 to Winton. A good TZ350 will beat most bikes of that era at Winton. This is the rationale between running over 350 two strokes in the 'unlimited' class. Those Kawasaki two stroke triples you mentioned seem to be a long way from the 'green meanies' which Toombs, Atlee, Hansford and Sayle used to ride when I was involved back then.
Alfonso |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2001 : 7:40:03 PM
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I notice that to date, there have been 108 people who have read the postings on this topic, but not too many are saying anything. I raced a 500cc Triumph in a Norton frame for about twenty years in All-powers C Grade,( a bit of a waste of time but good fun). What would I know about classic racing?
So please have your say, particularly if you think I've got it wrong.
Alfonso |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2001 : 9:46:04 PM
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I noticed at Historic Winton, that Mick Neason won period 4 ahead of Rex Wolfenden and Dave Anderson on the Suzuki 500. I was wondering, does Dave use methanol? I would have thought a good two stroke would beat the Hondas.
Alfonso |
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Former Member
deleted
63 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2001 : 6:19:35 PM
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Dave does use methanol.
He is normally about 2 seconds a lap off Rex.
I thought had given the post classic scene the flick and just riding his modern bike nowdays.
TA |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2001 : 09:40:40 AM
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I'm pretty sure it was Dave. Perhaps it will take a Kawasaki 500 or 750 on methanol to beat Rex and Mick? Hondas never went that quick in the seventies.
Alfonso |
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Former Member
deleted
63 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2001 : 6:37:18 PM
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It was Barry Ditchburn who came 3rd not Dave.
Also Rex has been beaten by Steve Dent on Neville Lushs Kawa Methanol Triple
TA |
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Former Member
deleted
2 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2002 : 11:44:08 PM
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For a start ,my 500 has a stock gearbox.If it is easy to get them to go fast how come there are not twenty out there?Mine is lots faster than the H1-r's you mentioned and handles worlds better.Maybe to you it is rubbish,but if you guys want to make historic racing go ahead you need more people riding.You will not get that if you restrict machinery to ex works/factory stuff.This is not Europe or USA where the volume and population base is large.OZ needs plenty of riders and good racing to revive the scene.Not that long ago I was position 27 at PI in a period 4 sidecar race.Now we are lucky to get 8 competitiors.No one wants to veiw a race with so few spread out over a 4.5km circuit.Just like some of the solo races with 8 guys all 500 yards apart,maybe with two real fast ones up the front.For what it is worth,what will your kaw/Yam/Egli project be but a modified street bike anyway?
Cheers,
Neville Lush
NEVILLE LUSH RACING |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2002 : 9:30:08 PM
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I note that at Winton on 28th May (last weekend). The guy on the Rob North Triumph Trident from Sydney beat Rex and Tony. I had a talk to the owner and he showed me the spare motor. It had two spark plugs per cylinder, through studs from head to base flange and from flange to main bearing cap. It has an unreal ignition systemto cope with the very high comp. He has welded up the crankcases where they split earlier on. He was a bit disgusted when I said I thought it was all too hard.
It does show one thing - if you're determined enough you can win on a British bike against the big Hondas, but at what price?
Alan Cotterell |
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Former Member
deleted
63 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2002 : 08:29:50 AM
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You forgot to mention who the guy was......Peter Guest.
TA |
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Former Member
deleted
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11 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2002 : 01:54:50 AM
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I had a ride on a Rob North Trident a few years ago in the Uk. The best aspect was not its power (although it was quick)it was its "rideability". Compared to the Featherbed commando I normally rode, it was like watching it on TV! It was just so easy to pitch into corners, it stayed where is was pointed on all track surfaces and was a delight to ride. The power of the motor was secondary to the handling. I don't think it is necessary to go overboard on beefing up the engine too much. I believe that is an avenue that too many of us go down.
If expense is a major factor in competeing (and it usually is ) going for radical engine mods is probably the worst way to go. It will cost more in the long run AND the short run. A decent frame and forks is unlikely to blow up!
None of the Tridents I saw there had twin plugs, through bolts etc etc and they were winning plenty of races.
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2002 : 12:12:49 PM
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John, I agree with what you said about the handling of the bikes we ride. My Seeley handles like nothing else I have ever ridden. I haven't got it into a slide yet, and I still don't know what it will do when it gets out of control. I suspect it will pitch me up the road very quickly.
One thing I've noticed is that a few of the guys have grizzled about 'trick frames'. I think it's really the way to go if you ever want to be a good rider. While we ride bikes that are substandard in the handling dept. we'll never improve. All that happens is you accomodate the deficiencies, but you never learn to get the absolute best out of yourself.
The Rob North Trident is a really nice bike, in my opinion. And I agree with you, you shouldn't have to do much to get one going pretty quickly. The factory Triumphs used to turn out 75HP on petrol in the old days. These days 85HP is realistic using methanol, and some trick parts.
Regards,
Alan Cotterell |
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