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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Mar 2004 : 4:20:02 PM
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I note that InCA were present at Eastern Creek the other weekend. How good would it have been to have had them at Phillip Island three weeks ago? Seems the promoters in Australia haven't got the ability to communicate? Or perhaps they are so jealous they can't stand the thought that another circuit can put on the same group of international riders?
The point of all this ranting I'm doing is- Historic Racing has a small enough following in Australia. Why can't we get ourselves organised so that what top line entertainment there is available, gets shown to best advantage.
Next time George gets chummy and talks about bringing riders to Australia - LET'S HAVE A SERIES OF EVENTS IN EACH STATE!!!
MA - WHERE ARE YOU? HOW ABOUT DOING SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE WITH THE MEETING DATES?
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Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
10 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2004 : 7:34:56 PM
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| I'm sure the Kiwis that came over for the Island Classic would have loved it if the two races where closer together they could have a top racing holiday and perhaps then those of us who where able, travel to NZ for a trans Tasman series |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2004 : 9:44:45 PM
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| Speaking personally, Its easy Alan, I am not going to work my backside off for the profit of some foriegn turkey to take $160,000 out of our economy and then race bikes that are as close to Historics as Tiger Moths are to Jets. Let them race as Inca Bull**** class and let them find their fields and spectators instead of pretending to represent anything from the past. Its so far removed from reality that even the FIM realised the Championship was a farce. See its easy, if you want it find the people who want to work to get it rather than blasting everybody else. personally I would not cross the road to look at one on fire so keep me out of it. As for MA,its not really their kettle unless you want them to tip the big bucks straight down the drain to have the circus come here. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2004 : 10:58:17 PM
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jeezas John,bit harsh on poor old incas mate,the only real difference between their bikes and the majority of pre 62 is about $50 odd grand?,besides 125mph plus down the main straight average spectators not too concerned about originality?,and they do pull their fair share,not to be sneezed at through the gates!,it is really up to the promoters to include these attractions as Bob so readily does at east creek meetings,John next time you have a chance,instead of ignoring these bikes take the time to appreciate them for what they are,basically a logical extension of an era,colourful i admit,circus maybe!,but still a race bike we can mostly identify with?,my 10c,Mick |
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Former Member
deleted
120 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2004 : 02:25:33 AM
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| Really John, you're quick to jump into bed with modern BEARS and run them at historic meetings but very slow to realise that INCA style bikes are something that will actually draw spectators. Do you know how much Barry Sheene did for historic racing in Australia, and do know what sort of bike he rode to help him do it? |
Jayne |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2004 : 08:19:50 AM
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| I accept the Inca's look like Historic bikes. but in an earlier topic I point out the contension that they are silloettes of the real machine. I would encourage them at any meeting, subject to the $160,000 fee, but I think they should race as Inca class, not Historics because they are so removed from the original machines. Weight, chassis geometry, engine design, titanium exhausts, carby location. I belive they are Clasic looking bikes made to modern specifications and pretending to be Historic. That my main beef. As for BEARS, I understand your comment, but we did not have to pay them a big fee to attend and not enough Historics are turning up to meetings. THat to me is a bigger issue that needs solving at the moment. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2004 : 6:31:27 PM
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John, What about the Mike Farrell McIntyre Matchless and the (ex) Ray Berry/Craig Morris Manx ? Are you saying they are CHEETAS? InCA is an expensive class, but not all historic bikes were/are cheap Jap Sh*t heaps. If InCA can draw a crowd lets have 'em here. I don't suggest we should pay George's $110,000 for 15 riders, and I really wonder how much Bob payed to get them here? In fact I suggest George might have been looking for $110,000 from each circuit owner/promoter.
I will go so far as to say that the Ray Bery/Craig Morris effort was the most impressive I've seen in Historic Racing since it began in 1974. InCA are NOT UNBEATABLE. Lets build a few two valve Jawas in Seeley frames and use a bit of 'soup' like Blakey used to, that should get them going! I note George has written the rules to exclude speedway motors (and four valve motors) - we should be able to overcome that! If you can run a crappy BSA Gold Star you must be able to run a Jawa.
Incidently Phil Read runs the Geoff Duke Seeley/BSA with success. Let's have a go at the B*STARDS. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2004 : 6:50:23 PM
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John, your reference to 'silhouettes' is a bit strange. The current Australian rules for historic racing are all about bikes that 'look right' but aren't really right inside. Rex's Hondas are the benchmark in P4, they look like CB750's but are really 1000cc plus with CB900 internals. Are you suggesting we should take a step back towards purism and perhaps adopt New Zealand's rules? They actually ban Jap bikes from historic racing over there. And I believe, due to the fact that Ken McIntosh builds a 1962 Manx replica, InCA have been given the BIG A !
I believe there has to be a balanced approach to what mods are allowed, I suggest InCA are OK, however I feel a bit strange about electronic ignition being used on pre 62 bikes. The titanium bits, the new magnesium castings, the light frames are all OK with me - They're what historic racing is all about. Let's face it we could have built the same bikes back then - e.g the Henderson Matchless had a titanium rod in the early sixties, and I bet if you go to the museum at Bathurst, and take a magnet to the bolts, you'll find they aren't steel! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
174 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2004 : 9:01:18 PM
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Just had a look at the InCA website,Considering the amount of money that these guys seem to want to lift from ya wallet youd think that they would update the website a bit.
Why do these guys want so much?Do they think that they are that good that they can command top dollar.
Well I think a reality check is needed for them.
Personally I would rather spend my money on going to a C+D grade club round to watch normal blokes racing normal machines at breakneck speeds than watch a bunch of ol farts paddle round at speeds reserved for my granny.
What a joke to list in the tech section of the InCA site "that the use of exotic metals is allowed and encouraged".
No wonder they want so much.
Have InCA ever asked to us to race with them in Europe,and would they pay us to go???
Lets improve our own backyard first before feathering someone elses nest.
Next time your at a modern meet ask a few riders about InCA and Im sure a blank stare will be the response.InCA who!!!
Id rather the money be spent on ripping riders from the modern scene and getting them into historic racing,as we havnt got the biggest fields around.
Regards
Neill
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Its not what you ride,Its how fast you ride it!!! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2004 : 11:12:16 PM
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| The real problem Al, it theres not enough sidecars. If we had bigger fields the folks would be so mesmerized that they would not even notice the solo races after we had been around a few times. I heard a rumour that InCa was only developed because the sidecar scene is so strong in Europe they had to try something to draw attension to the solo,s. They also had to include grid girls at solo champs and not sidecar champs so people will at least look near the solos, thats what I have heard anyway. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2004 : 11:50:30 PM
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| When you start encouraging guys to bring out P5 sidecars, TZ750s like Vince Genovas oldie, you might start getting decent fields. Personally I believe any sidecar which isn't a worm is historic. Why don't you start running races based on machine type, instead of 'year'? Say three groups - up to 73 and up to 85 unlimited sidecar, and up to 73 Junior sidecar(650cc limit for 4 strokes, and 500cc for 2 strokes). In other words - how about really pirating the moderns for participants in historic events? There are plenty of old 'kneelers' about. The only bikes excluded would be the modern worms. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2004 : 12:36:50 PM
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| Lets shift the sidecar talk to the correct place, this could be interesting |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 5:06:01 PM
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I had a talk to Ken Lucas about InCA at Eastern Creek a while back. He said their bikes weren't much quicker down the straights. The difference is that those guys ride every week in Europe.
All this stuff about 'silhouette machines' is a big bunch of garbage! What they are riding are still Manxes and G50s and they are well within our historic racing rules.
If we can't get on the pace, can we really complain? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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bruce pederick
Level 2 Member
Victoria
27 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 11:10:09 PM
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Tried to send this a couple of weeks ago & then got busy
I went to the INCA meeting, camped in shed with my mate matcho mick (hi mick) Debate will always continue about replicas, inca bikes etc. I think it is good to see continued development of single cylinder 50's designs , and to pipe dream "what might have been ". The speed of Mike Farrells p3 Matchless was outstanding. Pity he ran off the track and crashed a couple of times. I had a talk with DE Ridder Jnr who said he could not believe how fast Mike went past him after running off the track. The Honda 6 replica was great but unfortunately not running properly. Was fortunate to run into Jim Redman in the tunnel and had a chat. Jim gave a very funny talk at the presentation at the Blacktown club, particularly about some of the antics Jack Ahearn got up to in the 50's A great week end. If the knockers can come up with something better, as a spectator now I won't be able to be held back Bruped |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2004 : 5:47:34 PM
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I suggest that every time we've had international riders visit Australia, the sport has benefitted.
The Murray Nankervis debacle at Laverton in the 70s wasn't all bad. We weren't going to see those top riders any other way. Who will ever forget Ago getting blown off by Blakey?
The InCA thing is of similar importance. It gives our guys a chance to compare themselves with the BEST internationals.
Over the years I've been fortunate enough to see (in Australia) Geoff Duke on Gilera, Tom Phillis and Jim Redman on Honda fours, Rob McElnea, Ron Grant, Don Emde on the XR750, Ago several times, Pat Hennen, Hurley Wilvert, Mike Hailwood, Barry Sheene and many others. I just feel grateful to have seen them, I appreciate how good they are (were), and I just leave it at that. I remember Don Emde and Ron Grant accelerating away from me at Calder, I don't romance or try to believe I was actually racing them!
InCA is the same, I suggest we should just appreciate how good they are! Give credit where it's due.
Like Bruce has said, it's great to see what a Manx or G50 ends up as if developed to its limit. What could have been if we had never seen a two stroke or a four cylinder racing bike? |
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