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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 11:34:26 AM
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Hi Guys, Have an issue with my clutch on my cb1100.It Shudders carn't get it off the line. Its like it grabs and lets go.dos'nt slip.Has perfect bascket,new fibers and steels.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Cheers
David. p5 honda #315
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DAVID |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 08:19:28 AM
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| David, my guess would be that some springs are weak. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2011 : 08:43:07 AM
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| I have had problems like that with aftermarket fibre plates (Barnett). The "tabs" weren't long enough to cover the outer steel fingers on the clutch basket. They only made contact with the inner half of the depth of the steel fingers. I replaced them with another brand & it fixed the problem. |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 07:25:56 AM
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There are a number of possible problems here and all will have to be looked at.
1. Clutch cable movement
2. Oil
3. warped plates (particularly steels)
4. springs
5. steel plate types |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2011 : 09:15:04 AM
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| Hi Pete, Its has new cable, new springs, new fibre's and steels.Although i used them at winton ,thats when it started.and iam useing fuchs formula 50 oil.I have checked the steels with a straight edge.Oh and the clutch plates are oem honda. |
DAVID |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 07:34:38 AM
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Oh. Couple of things Dave. Might try checking the steels on a flat plate and check the run out with a feeler gauge. I use the factory specs for warp. I tried a straight edge but it really was not a good indicator. The plate works better.
I would also check the spring lengths. I have found, even with Barnett springs, that they are not what they used to be in terms of length. At the same time check to make sure they are seating properly. Even half a mm can make a big difference here.
I don't know about the construction of the clutch drums on Hondas but Kwaks and Suzuki's have problems here and the rivets come loose over time and the chush drive springs some times fail leading to sloppy fit. On these latter things you can usually hear the noise. But in either case it leads to grabbing clutch as well.
In terms of oil, I use Penrite HPR Gas 10 and find the clutch works well. |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 10:54:02 AM
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Pete you are a legand, Measured the NEW springs last night,Found they were all difrent lengths!Up to 3mm different. I went through all my second hand bits and found a set all the same size in length,There is a spring maker in wodonga who i spoke to this morning,He said if bring them down he is able to measure they all have the same tension. I Have found a 6mm sheet of glass i think this might work as a flat plate.Thanks for all the great tips
Cheers
David.
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DAVID |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 11:25:42 AM
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| Hopefully all will be well. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 11:43:37 AM
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| Dave, let me know how it goes with the spring maker, I might use him as well. Hope it works out. |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2011 : 3:13:03 PM
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Ok, Back from the spring guy. He measured each spring in ftlb two were the same three varied, even the new springs i took along varied even worse ? He dos'nt make anything that small he buys them in.Scratching my head again. Spring guy carnt help me.
Where to next ?
Cheers
David. |
DAVID |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2011 : 10:59:42 AM
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If you can put together a set that have the same resistance you could then grind them down to the length of the shortest one.
This should give you a balanced set. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2011 : 3:11:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by john feakes
If you can put together a set that have the same resistance you could then grind them down to the length of the shortest one.
This should give you a balanced set.
John, I don't think you are entirely correct there. You would need to be carefull; as you lessen the no. of turns you actually increase the spring rate. Have a fiddle here:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Bernie |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2011 : 3:15:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bummers
quote:
Originally posted by john feakes
If you can put together a set that have the same resistance you could then grind them down to the length of the shortest one.
This should give you a balanced set.
John, I don't think you are entirely correct there. You would need to be carefull; as you lessen the no. of turns you actually increase the spring rate. Have a fiddle here:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Bernie
ooops - this one is better for this purpose:
You must be logged in to see this link. |
“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2011 : 3:30:50 PM
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Bernie, I am assuming that a set can be put together with only minimal variation in spring length, say 1mm or less but with fairly equal resistance.
The actual reduction would be minimal in terms of coil turns.
I find it hard to believe that in 2011 it is not possible to find a decent set of springs.
Anyway, hope you are well.
Are you coming down for the Southern Classic? |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2011 : 3:53:15 PM
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| Guys, this is not a new problem, I have had an ongoing issue for some time thats why I was hoping I might find someone new who makes decent springs. There are even problems with valve springs. The drag boys remove their valve springs after each meeting to avoid compression damage on the open valves. Best I can suggest is go to Barnett, they seem to be the best of a bad lot and you may have to mix and match until you can get the correct even pressure. I also see that APE in the US has a new manufacturer of clutch components TRAC KING. Maybe they are worth a look at. |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 3:24:01 PM
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Hi Guys, Well have just orderd one set of springs from Ken Colbern, and one set of genuine from honda to suit suit an 1100r
Thanks for all the tips, wish me luck.
David. |
DAVID |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 08:09:15 AM
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My fingers are crossed for you.
Is that Ken Colvin that you ordered from?
Let us know how you get on. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 12:28:20 PM
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Thanks Jonhn, yes your right sorry.
Ken colvin.
Cheers. |
DAVID |
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dont
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
4 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2011 : 3:05:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by john feakes
If you can put together a set that have the same resistance you could then grind them down to the length of the shortest one.
This should give you a balanced set.
Sorry to butt in here, when you say "that have the same resistance" are you measuring this at home or working off the measurements from the spring guy? If at home what is an easy way of doing it?
Also instead of shortening the long springs could you shim with washers the short ones?
Interested in the issue, Don |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2011 : 4:56:47 PM
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springs should have a lbs per given length..
a set of scales and a measureing stick and u can have a rough idea would they are in in/lbs cm/g wot ever!!
if u go shimming beware u can get coil bound!! |
Allan Greening |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2011 : 5:12:19 PM
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| at one time most gargers the old "type servos" had valve spring testers which could also be used to sheck clutch springs |
Allan Greening |
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dont
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
4 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2011 : 6:25:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Allan
springs should have a lbs per given length..
a set of scales and a measureing stick and u can have a rough idea would they are in in/lbs cm/g wot ever!!
if u go shimming beware u can get coil bound!!
Thanks, one of those things good to have in the back of mind for when the problem occurs. |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 11:58:43 AM
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Hi Guys, Well good news for me ! Seem to have had some success, Seems my oil pressure was to high and to thick. Talked to a really nice guy Glenn who owns bikers edge in wodonga. looked at all my bits and suggested oil is my problem. Have gone from 20/60 to 5/60 only ridden it down the road got it hot and tried a practise start,
Seems OK for now ?
Cheers
David. |
DAVID |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 08:59:44 AM
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Interesting.
Is that with the original clutch or have you changed the clutch springs?
Anyway, let's hope it keeps working for you.
Best wishes, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 3:34:16 PM
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Hi John, Thats with all the same bits, Iam still waiting for new springs and i will fit them when they arrive.
Just to be shore.
Cheers
David. |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 8:25:07 PM
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Hi David,
I see you have a CB1100R, I was wondering which model it is and how you are going for parts if you are going genuine. I have just bought a C model and am interested in finding out a bit about them.
Regards
Alan Sidecar 21 |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 08:13:07 AM
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Hi Alan, Mine is not real, It is a 1980 900 frame with a 1100f engine fiberglass tank and bits. wish it was real. Have not had any trouble getting bits though.
Cheers
David. |
DAVID |
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Topic |
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help with clutch
