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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Dec 2011 : 4:24:22 PM
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I am seeking ideas on how to improve the Historic Winton event.
What would be yopu ideal wish list assuming we are following the GCR,s?
Tell me why you dont ride or what would encourage you to ride at this event.
Please dont go off on the wrong tangent I am too busy to be drawn into arguments. I want practical ideas and concepts.
Thansk in advance
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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david dunk
Level 1 Member
Victoria
14 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2011 : 3:04:09 PM
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Hi John, Some years ago David Morgan organised the winter classic at Oran park for the hrr, One of the races was called the teams challenge,Where they teamed a fast rider and a slow rider together.The slow riders started the race did i think 4 laps then had to enter pit lane at walking pace get of there bike run to there team mate and tag them and they would leave pit lane and do another 4 laps. It was a lot of fun to be in and also to watch.
Cheers
David #315 |
DAVID |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2012 : 09:56:31 AM
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Thanks Dave, I will pass it on.
Otherwise I am surprised there has been little comment. The Committee is seeking ideas to improve the meeting, PLEASE help us. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 10:29:20 AM
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When you can organise capacity based races solely for thunderbikes (air cooled single, twin and three cylinder four strokes) I will be there. You might consider doing the same for GP bikes, and Superbikes, and promote them as Australian Classic Title feature races. Forget periods !
You did ask ! ! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 10:36:30 AM
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| Alan, Why cant you join a race with other bikes, the track is big enough. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2012 : 10:47:01 PM
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| Why did you ask the question if you didn't want to hear the answer ? You've asked similar questions many times previously, and nothing has ever changed ! Terry O'Neills Pro Thunder class has more appeal than Period 4 Unlimited for a Norton Commando based bike. |
Edited by - conker on 18 Feb 2012 10:50:15 PM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2012 : 6:27:33 PM
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Alan, nothing changes because you seem to be the only one who supports the changes you suggest.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 12:18:36 PM
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| John, the changes have never been fully discussed. And my suggestion is that one cross period feature race for bikes of one of the three distict types, should be run at each historic meeting, at least on a trial basis. A Senior Classic TT would be a good start. It could encompass the usual Period 3 ,4,and 5 500cc four strokes. No two strokes or four cylinder bikes allowed. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2012 : 12:48:51 PM
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Cross period meaning say P3, P4 and P5 all in.
What is next?
Thanks |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2012 : 3:36:18 PM
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There has been 3 bike races for the last 4 or 5 years where previously there were 4.Three solo races and a sidecar event. Current races are all powers P1,P2 and P3, all powers P4 and P5 and also sidecars. How many extra races are the Austin 7 club going to give to bikes?????
With combined races already all is needed is how to encourage more entries.......
Run what you brung is catered for now.
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 11:54:47 AM
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See my comments in the other post regarding Historic Winton. I am with you Keith, wondering if they will give us more races - I doubt it, in fact I reckon this is a move to reduce races, and I further reckon that if we do lose races it will be nigh on impossible to get them back. So the real question is how to make the races more exciting for spectators (and organisers) so that they come to watch us. Now I know that they come out to watch the sidecars - you even see the car mechanics taking a break to wander over to the fence when we are going out - but for the poor old two wheelers there seems to be less 'pull' factor. What constitutes an exciting race then? Well, usually a close race with severl fighting for the lead... Hmmm maybe we could choreograph a few races? Let's say first race of the day provides a dead heat finish with four bikes side by side - I reckon everyone would be out there watching the next race with bets being laid as to who will break away this time!!! OK, maybe that is a bit over the top but perhaps it does suggest that at this sort of race meeting periods are not quite as important as entertainment. I mean, how many of those car spectators understand the subtle brake differences that move a bike from P3 to P4? They don't care. But I reckon they would be very happy to see what looks like an old British banger in front of a modern looking superbike (ooops am I back to choreographing again??)! Hmmm, OK, I have not really given any answers but I hope perhaps I have sown the seeds of thoughts for someone else.
Cheers
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2012 : 2:09:25 PM
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The allpower format now reduces the spectacle on track cause most people watch the "front" i think.
Without expressed knowledge a spectators understanding that there may be 5 races taking place in each one makes it very difficult to educate them.
The only way to do so is to have more races separating classes...... I do not know what can ever be done on this front to provide extra.....
When the 4th Bike race disappeared a few years back none too many feathers were ruffled so now we take what we get........
in the P4 and P5 allpowers races perhaps up to 500 bikes go away first with a ??????second delay till the uber fast superbikes get the off?????
same could be considered for all of the bike races????? outfits?????
This is only pondering????? Big bikes are still going to catch small bikes after delayed start anyway.....
********Safety must remain paramount*********
What is the Austin 7 clubs attitude to extending the bike racing?????
Do they agree/disagree bikes bring valid spectacle to this meeting, promoting payers through the gate?
Would they "miss" the bikes if we went elsewhere??????
Wagga Wagga might be a nice place to visit in May?????? Bit warmer even????? Who knows what lies ahead??
Just food for thought......
Cheers.
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 06:50:37 AM
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Doug Gorrie has still got one of these which hasn't raced for years:
You must be logged in to see this link.
Russell King has still got Jeff Curley's Triumph, Chris Grubb still has a Commando which he doesn't race. There are still several Norton and Triumph twins, and Vincents in Periods 3 and 4, and a couple of Ducatis in Period 5 which go nowhere. I'm still looking for somewhere worthwhile to ride my own bike. How about a feature race sometime? |
Edited by - conker on 03 Mar 2012 06:56:07 AM |
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 07:25:57 AM
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Keith, believe me I'm not sh1t stirring when I say this. Period 3 500s are the premier class in historic racing, and your featherbed framed Jawa is the way to go. But I believe the class would be much better if it was cross period and excluded two strokes, and any bike with over two cylinders. If that was the class you'd be racing against that beautiful Seeley G50 from northern NSW, and the SR500 Yamahas which normally run in period 5 against the TZs. I suggest you still wouldn't have a problem doing really well in feature races which were run on that basis ? The reason that the races look and sound wrong these days, is because we are hung up on 'periods'. Periods mean nothing, they had no place in history. In the old days it was quite common to see 15 year old bikes competing against moderns. In the late sixties, early seventies we even ran disc brake bikes against ones fitted with drum brakes. All it takes is a little bit of care.
I support the use of logbooks to ensure authenticity, but their use for race eligibility purpose is bullsh1t. If the races were cross period, the logbooks would still stop hotrods from being developed. |
Edited by - conker on 03 Mar 2012 07:28:45 AM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 10:36:44 AM
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Keith, would you like to come with me to teh Austin 7 club meeting when we will be discussing the matter. Its on Wed 13 March in Moorabbin. I would love your input.
Fellas I am trying to read all the opinions here, but they are hard to read, can you separate someof the ideas and give me paragraphs.
Thanks.
BOTTOM line I dont belive we are being shafted. The whole meeting is under pressure for time and entries.
the meet and greet on Sat night is something we asked for to enable bikes and cars to meet and talk.
So please come to taht. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 2:38:38 PM
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Hi John, would be happy to come for a listen and a chat. Give me a call to arrange.
0418 30 40 45 |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2012 : 8:28:16 PM
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Maybe it is time to make it a three day meeting. If we got practice and qualifying done on Friday we could all get a lot more racing in.
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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conker
Really - acotrel - Now banned
Victoria
361 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 08:21:58 AM
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| John and Keith, I don't believe the car guys would shaft you. In the end it comes down to what the spectators like, and they certainly seem to like the historic bikes. However I suggest there is a danger when you continually present races where the competition is not close. The current format which offers a mix of the three main types of bikes, and many can get lapped within a four lap race - you cannot sell that! I suggest that John got it right at one of his Broadford meetings about three years ago. He ran all the twostrokes from periods 3, 4, and 5 in the one race - it was absolutely bl00dy great, and it made me feel that the expense of running my TZ350G might be justified. Unfortunately, that format never happened again. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 11:38:11 AM
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Thanks Alan.
Sometimes I get something happening and I loose support for it later.
If you think carefully about thsi idea, it should be simple, you will race against anythging taht has close lap times to YOU and you cannot get lapped if we keep the lap time differential less that 1/5 of the time for a 5 lap race and 1/6 of the time for a 6 lap race.
Please think about it.
Others have not been happy about loosing class trophies, but if the timing was done it still could hapopen. But maybe just a nice "participitation trophy would be ok?
Let me know please |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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jimq
Level 1 Member
Victoria
6 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 6:04:45 PM
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| Hey just a quick comment. I shifted to Australia from New Zealand a few years ago and have casually dropped in to have a look at a couple of your Victorian classic race meets in the time i have been here an must say the classic bike racing scene in NZ is far stronger than over here. A suggestion as to why that might be is most of the meetings i attended in NZ were run under NZCMRR (New Zealand classic motorcycle racing register) rules. Obvioysly this club runs a variety of periods but the latest (post classic) bikes are restricted to pre 76 and NO japanese bikes or parts are eligible. This means with the exeption of a few bultacos, bantams and suchlike its all fourstroke thunder. LOts of clubman class bsa's velocettes etc factory racers like manxes and g50's and the post classic Ducatis Harleys triples commandos etc. Im not suggestiny you change the rules to this as i imagine this is a culture thats taken over 30 years to build but...yeah im not sure what im trying to say. Mabey take a trip over to the classic festival in the first weekend of february (next year) and have a look. |
Edited by - jimq on 05 Mar 2012 6:06:43 PM |
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Historic winton 2012
