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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Feb 2014 : 11:19:29 AM
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As Chairman of thsi committee I am inviting people who may be interested to get involved, we over see rule changes, offer advise to prospective new comers, plan promotion of Historics generally and provide input to the MV board. Its an interesting task to help with. We meet Wednesdays at 7pm in Port Melbourne, 1st wed of the month.
This year we are working with Classic Moto X to help them expand their discipline
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2014 : 10:52:05 AM
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Who's there currently John? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2014 : 11:08:24 AM
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| Myself, Vic O'Driscoll |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 06:57:14 AM
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| When you say 'we oversee rule changes' what does that mean ? All I ever see is 'same old, same old' - seems very inflexible and conservative. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 09:23:39 AM
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Perhaps you should join then Alan, it's only once a month and you could stop over at John Feakes's place.
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 07:36:51 AM
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| Jason, John Feakes lives 80Km north of Melbourne. When Rob Dark moved to Queensland the PCRA was taken over, and a meeting was to be held in Hawthorn. I travelled down there and found two other guys looking for the meeting which never happened despite all the promises. I am interested in CLASSIC racing - historic bullsh1t leaves me cold. The alternatives are never even discussed. Why would I bother, I can't even afford the petrol to swan off to some esoteric meeting, let alone road race these days. What should my priorities be ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 11:53:10 AM
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I'll take that as a no then! On something else while I think of it, do you know if Winton will get its bike licence back or are they just going to run track days only instead? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 12:13:28 PM
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I cannot say at thsi stage its all a matter of procedures.
I am aware the HMRAV is working on it also |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 08:45:36 AM
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| Winton has never lost it's track licence. If you want to end up in court just keep propagating those kinds of rumours. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 08:52:03 AM
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| Why don't you all do something constructive,- forget the historic bullsh1t and work out ways that you can get Juniors, Buckets, Bears and Historics all racing together at the same meetings in races where they are compatible on a technology and capacity basis ? If you can achieve that you might get up to 300 entries per meeting which would make the whole sport of classic racing much more economically viable. Critical mass of competitors and spectator appeal are important to success. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 08:59:06 AM
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| Who do you think is really interested in scrambling through the MOMS and arguing about rules which have no effect on cheating anyway ? 'The best rules are no rules', that is why Supermono was do loved until the idiots decided to exceed the normal capacity limitations. The motors got bigger and blew up quicker, so the man with the most money won. - The same stupidity which happens in historic racing. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 10:02:40 AM
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Alan I think you are missing a few facts.
Apart from yourself, I am not aware of anybody who is unhappy with the situation with racing. All the areas you speak of are covered with meetings all year.
The HMRAV events have 57 odd races for a range of bikes. There is space on some grids for more, but I have not seen people standing at the gates with bikes crying about not being able to race.
THE HISTORIC BS IN ITS CURRENT FORM IS very popular and as somebody said once or twice " IF I AIN'T BROKE DONT FIX IT".
Now Al, why don't you come down to Broadford for the Vic Historic Titles, I can pick you up at he station if you like.
Then get the people who are screaming for races to also come along and I am sure we can sort something out at the next event.
Regards John |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2014 : 11:29:26 PM
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pretty sure there was a critical mass of competitors,& spectators at the island Classic,(most of the bs was afterhours ), |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2014 : 09:58:16 AM
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"Winton has never lost it's track licence. If you want to end up in court just keep propagating those kinds of rumours."
Alan, this sort of commentary is unnecessary and frankly, offensive. It does you no favours. I am merely passing on what I have heard elsewhere and I expected you would be someone who would know the answer, hence why I asked you. Perhaps you can answer this instead - if it has never lost is bike licence, why are all the regular series not running there now? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2014 : 7:12:08 PM
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Ok fellas its my task to find the facts.
Winton has a licence in place for the Historic Winton event for 2014.
It lapses the week after according to my sources.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2014 : 09:04:17 AM
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| Jason, you need to look where the historic guys stand in the eyes of Winton staff. Adam Ronke runs regular Moto Ride days each month. He mentioned to me recently that some riders have said to him that they thought that Winton has lost it's track licence. It is a lie, and we'd like to know where it is coming from. We recently lost Mick Ronke so we no longer have his support for the motorcycles. Anything which can upset Benalla Auto Club should be rigorously avoided, if motorcyclists want to keep access to Winton Raceway. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2014 : 09:10:52 AM
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| John, The Austin 7 Historics is a very important annual event on Winton's calendar. The staff at the raceway are competent, especially Heather Wallace who is now in charge along with Adam Ronke. Something as important as the track licences for both cars and bikes will never be overlooked. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
Edited by - acotrel on 22 Feb 2014 09:11:58 AM |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2014 : 09:27:35 AM
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'Perhaps you can answer this instead - if it has never lost is bike licence, why are all the regular series not running there now?'
There are very few clubs running open meetings these days. The Interclub and Hartwell club rounds still run at Winton, and are poorly supported - I believe this is due to their 'closed' nature, and also the race classes which are offered. Preston Club usually runs one open meeting per year. Terry O'Neill's FX usually runs once per year, and is televised. You will note that there are also only a couple of meetings at Phillip Island. I think most of the problem is the lack of suitable race classes, and the silly rules which exist for the remainder. Why do I need a log book to race an old motorcycle when I am not interested in 'historic championships' ? Why do I need to join two other clubs to run in both the Interclub and the Hartwell Club round, and join the BEARS club to run in one of their races ? If I've got a race licence, either MA or AASA, surely I should be able to race at ANY motorcycle road race meeting ? To my mind it is the plethora of stupid rules which is making road racing disappear up it's own backside. We certainly don't need any more rules, and should look long and hard at getting rid of as many as possible.
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Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
Edited by - acotrel on 22 Feb 2014 09:30:24 AM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2014 : 2:06:59 PM
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I can say the modern bikes have plenty of racing, in nfact recently i was informed that popular opinion was there are too many race meetiungs to choose from. i was astounded.
track hire costs is another issue, and also availabilty of dates.
with more and more commercial days for track days there are less dates for racing. regards |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2014 : 11:13:04 AM
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Alan - thanks, however that's my point - Hartwell, Interclub and Pirelli are not running there this year. I assumed it was because, as I'd heard, that they couldn't. It must be for other reasons we would have to assume. I never saw Hartwell and Interclub rounds being poorly supported, and I would not agree that their 'closed' status would influence that to any appreciable degree were it even the case. As a competitor, I did get some vibe that some didn't like going there, but most did. Despite my concerns about it in the past, I agree with JD who noted sagely on several occasions that we absolutely do not need to be losing available tracks. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2014 : 07:13:44 AM
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Jason, You can write your own ticket with Winton. Adam Ronke is currently running monthly Moto Ride Days. If you were to approach him with a viable business proposition, I'm sure he would give you a good hearing. It is up to young guys like yourself to make road racing happen. I suggest that whatever you do, you should try to make it as inclusive as possible. Classic racing offers the only real opportunities for machine development. If it is limited to the 'historic' concept the restrictions are a turn-off. As I've said previously - BEARS, Historics, Buckets and Juniors have a lot in common. If you can get the number of entries up, more meetings for old style bikes will happen.
It seems that whenever most people think about starting a road race class, they primarily think about what should be excluded. I suggest that is the wrong mindset - the 'level playing field' is important however getting more bikes on the grid should be the primary consideration. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2014 : 07:22:58 AM
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| Jason, I'd point out one other thing. While Mick Ronke was alive he had a continual battle with CAMS. The Austin 7 Historics are run under CAMS control, and the cars all must comply with the CAMS rules for historic cars. Mick decided to conduct another 'historic' meeting each October and arranged it so that all the unused projects hiding in sheds could get a run. The October meeting is very popular, especially the 'tin top' races. Bikes don't get to compete at that meeting, however if you've got the numbers Winton will always give you a race. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2014 : 07:34:24 AM
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| Jason, Until about 4 years ago, the Interclub at Winton was a two day event, now it is a one day event. We've tried to get our Winton Motorcycle Club included,- unsuccessfully up until now. We have a few guys interested in road racing, however the clubs which push their own barrow instead of working for the greater good make things difficult. Terry O'Neill's Formula Extreme meetings are well run, however his classes are all mixed grid compromises and not many suit 'historic' bikes, and we only see him at Winton a couple of times per year. I have long had the feeling that there must be a more viable alternative to get guys with slightly older bikes involved in racing. One thing I strongly believe is that we don't need more rules. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2014 : 07:42:00 AM
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John, I'd like you to think back to the 1960s. Can you remember when, if you wanted to road race, you joined a club, got a licence, prepared your bike and raced every month ? Joining the club, getting the licence and submitting an entry was enough bullsh1t. One of the biggest things which turns me off historic racing is the mass of rules and the log book - who really needs them ? You still get horrendous cheating. The one thing which was totally disregarded from the beginning was the need to control engine capacities - it was basic to road racing right from the year dot.
The best road race meetings I've ridden at in recent years were the old farts meetings at Mount Gambier - single event licence, sensible classes, no eligibility bullsh1t. Just turn up and ride and have a good time. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
Edited by - acotrel on 27 Feb 2014 07:48:38 AM |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2014 : 8:29:29 PM
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| Hope to see you at Mt Gambier with a trusty steed between you legs |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2014 : 06:24:34 AM
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| Winton is only 11 Km from home. I'd be hard pressed to afford the petrol to get there at the moment. However it won't always be like that. I really want to ride at the next Austin 7 meeting. The bike is coming up very well - just irritating little things remaining to get right. And I need a cheap practice day. Adam's Moto Ride day costs about $210 total, and even that is currently difficult for me. If you guys want to come up and have a derby on one of them, that would be good. We are not supposed to race, however Adam is so sleepy he wouldn't notice until after it happened. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2014 : 06:29:51 AM
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| Is MA still insisting on the log book bullsh1t for all historic race meetings ? Or have they relented yet and only want it for championships ? When I raced regularly in the 60s and 70s, I did not need a log book, and my bike is still the same as it was in 1978. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
Edited by - acotrel on 11 Mar 2014 06:30:26 AM |
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Historic
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
46 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2014 : 10:39:27 AM
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Yes there is still the need for a logbook for all Historic meetings.
You are quite correct that when you raced your 1978 bike in 1978 you did not need a Historic logbook. That's because then it was a modern motorcycle.
You can still do that if you comply with the modern rules at meetings for modern motorcycles. If you wish to compete in an historic event then you need to comply with the historic rules and obtain a logbook.
Those application can take several weeks, so if Historic Winton is your goal you shouldn't delay in applying.
I suppose you could build a time machine and take yourself and your 1978 motorcycle back to 1978 and have a race, but I think a logbook is easier.
Historic |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 04:37:30 AM
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| Do I need a log book to ride my 1978 motorcycle in Formula Extreme or BEARS events ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 04:46:07 AM
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| When I was racing regularly, I paid a levy to help build Broadford. Wouldn't that have covered all log book requirements and other tax imposts on that circuit ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 04:49:20 AM
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| When is the next BEARS or Formula Extreme event at Broadford ? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Topic |
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Vic. Historic management Committee
