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Matt Morgan
Level 2 Member
Victoria
89 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jun 2008 : 7:54:27 PM
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Working on the Norton frame today I uncovered a serial number with a flexible grinding disc. (angle grinders are fun) A quick look through various websites tells me it's a 1954 Manx 30 Featherbed.
Just a quick word on Period 3 brakes: I have to say it is proving to be a major headache to find an eligible 8" TLS drum brake manufactured before 1963. It'd be nice if we could just run drum brakes (ie: fontana, grimeca, etc) of any year, as it would still maintain that period look that the rules seek to retain.
Any thoughts?
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 09:29:51 AM
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Matt, I absolutely agree with you. The wording regarding brakes is "manufactured in the period or which replicate those manufactured in the period". This replication aspect would come down to individual interpretation. There are several companies producing replica Manx Nortons so it should be possible to come up with suitable brakes. The cost will be ugly though. Perhaps talk to M.A. to see how much flexibility is allowed in "replicating". I wish you luck.
Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator
Victoria
288 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 10:46:39 AM
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Hi Matt,
I went through a similar brake search when planning my period 3 solo (if you could call an esky full of parts a bike!) and found that (as mentioned by John) the rules are indeed "interpretable".
There are plenty of people out there running suzuki 2ls/4ls brakes with scoops welded/riveted on to replicate a "period" look. I imagine just about any 70's tls could be used in this way - you can have a great brake for $50 and a little work on "replicating".
It seems, and rightly so, that in practice a measured adaptive approach is used and tolerated for brakes. This is good policy on the part of MA/inspectors as not everyone can afford true period brakes. I think we all should remember here that MA policy should remain flexible to the needs of user groups; if it is not working then communication with the org to reach agreed compromise is possible (as with any reasonable organistion!).
Anyone else got comment on the griemcas? I thought they would be fine.
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Matt Morgan
Level 2 Member
Victoria
89 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 11:00:45 AM
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| Yeah, all true. It's really a bit of a worry that we can fill engine cases and heads with as much go-fast stuff as we can afford providing it's out of view, but still seem to have to rely on 40yo brakes. I'll try M.A. and see what happens. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 3:41:20 PM
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If you ride a 40yo bike surely you must expect to have 40 yo style of brakes. I am aware the Suzuki altered units have been used sucessfully and log bokked as well. When more modern brakes were fitted prior to logbooks the riders then were asking for bigger forks because they could not cope with the braking forces. I guess in the extreme you may need to then have a more solid frame, so you may put insay a Yamaha XS650 frames to hold the biger forks and brakes and of course then you need a 6 speed gearbox because ts all heavier and from there you need to make the 650 a 750 to get speed etc. Where does it end ?
I am sure you will not have a problem at the nd of the day. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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trifield12
Level 1 Member
Victoria
13 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 5:51:43 PM
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| it would be nice to provide a time line of the happenings of classic racing since it started for the newer riders to see what has been suggested,allowed and banned over the 30 year period |
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Matt Morgan
Level 2 Member
Victoria
89 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2008 : 7:07:13 PM
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| Thanks for your thoughts folks! I spoke with MA today and it boils down to "if you can prove they are of the period, then you can run them". So pre '63 it is, or nuthin! I think you're right John, I dont think I'll have a problem when its all said and done....it's not like I'm going down a road that no-one else has before. Truth be told, I'm enjoying the research! Thanks again, see you on the track next season........I hope. |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 09:17:02 AM
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Matt, just a little depressing news about authenticity, Manx front brakes from Ken McIntosh 8" 2ls $2,718 and 7" 4ls $3,751.
I do remember a few years ago George Campbell having major hassles with M.A. over a front brake that looked perfect to me. Perhaps have a chat to George or maybe Keith will come in with the story. We really need a measure of flexibility in our interpretation of rules because each year it gets harder to source authenticity.
Matt, I wish you the best of luck with this.
Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Matt Morgan
Level 2 Member
Victoria
89 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 1:22:44 PM
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| At this stage I'm looking at a boat anchor and chain.... |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 1:29:12 PM
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I did try and create a database for the information you dream of Tridfiekld.
After 3 years it was apparent that it is too difficult. I gave up.
Sorry about that. Mats reference to proving it was around is the only way to deal ith it. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Allan
Site Moderator
National
599 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2008 : 4:08:08 PM
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| Twin triumph 7" cast drums back to back with apacers inbetween was the go, years ago, also if i remember correct Reg Curly used twin 8" BSA drums back to back on his Gold Star 500 and triumph conical hub with fins fitted for front and rear brakes with Norton backing plates, if i look hard enough i have some where a "left hand" Manx copy backing plate with brake shoes (not m/c) will fit 8" BSA or triumph conical hubs,possible FIT INTO water bottle 4LS HUB |
Allan Greening |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 5:03:00 PM
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Matt, one of the problems that I have become aware of is that each applicant has to prove eligibility on an individual basis, i.e. M.A. do not seem to accept a precedent as being proof in itself. What we really need is simplification, what we seem to get is duplication and complication. It is not clear who actually handles the log book applications nor who has the final word as to whether or not an application succeeds or fails.
We really need to get this whole matter clarified and simplified. I very much doubt that there is anyone who knows everything about the world history of motorcycles, particularly here in Australia. We were not exactly a world leading country in motorcycle production.
Would anyone care to comment on this issue?
Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Bummers
Level 3 Member
Queensland
244 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2008 : 5:47:00 PM
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This isn't a "Sidecar Comment" but a general one. There is no explanations, that I've noticed, in the GCR's nor in the Logbooks themselves, on the procedures for updating or when it is needed to get Logbooks updating and by whom?
I don't understand if the machine rider/owner should update his own logbook & get a scrutineer to sign it off or whether it's up to the scrutineer to notice any changes & note them in the Logbook.
And do you eventually make so many modifications to the logbooked machine that you need to apply for a new Logbook?
Cheers,
Mystified Bummers
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“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.” Steve McQueen |
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Matt Morgan
Level 2 Member
Victoria
89 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2008 : 11:29:42 PM
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| After much deliberation and asking of inane questions, I reckon the way to go is the 8" BSA drums back to back. At least now I've got an answer, I can move forward on the front end! Thanks everyone who wrote in, I had a heap of fun doing the research and just possibly learning a bit as I went! |
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Ben
Honda CB350 Racers Promotion - Moderator
Victoria
288 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2008 : 12:51:30 PM
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Nice one Matt. If you have time/inlcination, might be good to post progress and pics on this as you move through? ie - parts used, modifications made, how to join the hubs, etc etc. Would be great to have things like this documented!
Cheers and Thanks,
Ben.
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Try Everything |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2008 : 09:53:13 AM
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Hi Bernie, I had a rat through the '07 rule book as I left my current one with a mate. Rule 16.2.2.2 (c)..........Log books must contain provision for scrutineers to record any alterations or changes to the machine.
I will keep asking to see if I can find out who actually decides which parts get approved and which get rejected.
Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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