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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Aug 2009 : 10:36:47 AM
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Senior Victorian Historic 4 stroke TT
The idea of a new race which would cater for twin and single cylinder fourstroke bikes only of capacities over 250cc, up to 500cc, of ANY PERIOD has arisen?
That way we'd end up with a race which includes the SR500 Yamahas, the Seeley G50, any 350 and 450 Ducatis and any other P4 and P5 fourstrokes of the correct capacity.
can you give me feedback on the idea and sugest when and where we may run it?
Thank you
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 27 Aug 2009 10:56:10 AM |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2009 : 5:12:04 PM
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Well, in my dreams I see a TT race for each capacity class and they would take place at Calder.
Hey, dreams can come true.
Cheers, John
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125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 12:32:46 AM
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| TT classes for fourstroke singles and twins. GP classes for two strokes and multis would also be a good go. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2009 : 08:07:52 AM
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To John Daley
Congratulations to yourself and HMRAV for considering something so progressive. The new approach would replace years of racing in which many people never really got a competitive ride. I suggest it is important to get feedback from Keith Campbell, after all he is the Top Gun in the current 500cc P3 class which would be replaced with the new concept Senior Historic TT. |
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rickkwok
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
3 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2009 : 8:46:11 PM
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Great idea John and I will support you to get it through.
I race a P5 Yamaha SR500 in NSW with PCRA and always against 2 and 4 stroke twins, which leaves me at a disadvantage from the get go. I have been campaigning for a single cylinder class but the PCRA are over-run with classes already and cannot entertain any new classes without dropping another class.
The SR500 is a weird bike in that it really is a P3 or P4 bike in terms of engineering, just a Japanese take on the old British Single. It really should be able to race against Manx Nortons and G50s, so liberating the class from a particular Era would neatly solve this problem.
I only do NSW meetings but if this class goes ahead I would certainly have a greater incentive to go Interstate to race the SR.
I would like to hear what lap times Manx Nortons and G50s do at my local tracks so I know what I am up against, my lap times this year:
Eastern Creek 1:55
Wakefield Park 1:15
Oran Park GP 1:27
Oran Park South 0:52
Cheers
Rick |
SR500 FE |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 1:47:25 PM
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Welcome Rick.
This is a good idea and one that needs to be supported.
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125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 2:11:08 PM
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At thsi stage there is not plan to have thsi idea replace anything else.
As far as I see it it would be an additional race because there is no need to wipe out existing events.
This MAY be the start of some funny business to create events that are different and introduce more machines. We dont need to wipe out the existing ones. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 4:19:27 PM
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Neil May gave me his times for the 500 and 350 Nortons he has
1:52.3 on the 500 and 1:54.4 on the 350 at Eastern Creek. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 8:18:51 PM
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| Sounds like a Senior Historic TT could be a good go! The times look pretty similar for Eastern Creek for the SR500 and the manx. I'd really like to see what the Mk2 Seeley G50 can do against the Molnar Manx, the featherbed Jawa, and the SR500s. Theoretically none in particular should have a major advantage over any of the others. They all have the same development problems, and the same capacity! Could really be good close racing. |
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rickkwok
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
3 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2009 : 9:51:03 PM
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Wow, those times are good! Still, 3 seconds a lap is within the realms of reality. I still have some development to go with a fairing, still running naked. It sounds like a great class in the making.
I am on the PCRA Committee and if enough people say they will bring their bikes, I can lobby for such a class to run at the next Barry Sheene Festival of Speed. Indeed we are running a feature race at Oran Park in October that will be very similar to this. We have a single cylinder class and a battle of the twins class, so a good testbed for this senior TT class.
If anyone is interested, I will post a link to the Supp Regs as soon as they are available. Also if people are interested in running this Senior TT format for the Barry Sheene FOS, I can relay that back to the organisers.
P.S. Is it just me or does this web site keep going down? It seems to just hang forever and comes back half an hour later..??? |
SR500 FE |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 07:23:36 AM
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Not sure about the hangups does not happen here, maybe it is the distance from melb to Sydney that is causing the problems, if the cable goes over the Blue Moutains it would be hardewr.
Otherwise the racing ideas are gr8, certainly post supp regs David will help you if need be.
Battle of the twins, can I have more details please? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 08:29:07 AM
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| I've been wondering who owns that really beautiful Mk2 Seeley G50 that was at Phillip Island in January this year? It'd be interesting to get his thoughts on the new concept race for 500cc singles and twins. His bike would have cost a bomb, and other than this opportunity, he might not get another chance to race against similar bikes! |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 6:23:56 PM
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You sure have, you mention it in every second post. As I outlined in the "Why would you race a 350 Goldie" thread, it belongs to Dave "Duf" Woolsey, and he bangs it round the Island in around two minutes, and finishes top six regularly in the 500 Postclassic class without complaint. Seeleys, as you are no doubt aware, were made from 1966 onwards, and so fall into Postclassic (1972 cutoff).
The AHRMA or InCA 1968 cutoff, which allows Seeleys, Metisses and the like to compete, was promoted for several years by Bob Blythe at Eastern Creek in association with the HRRR of NSW, and while it gave us great racing and the chance to see the world's top classic racers doing their stuff, NOBODY was inspired enough to grasp it as a new sub-category worth promoting, and nobody imported or built race bikes to suit the class, so it died,(Woolsey was a regular British series regular before he immigrated to Queensland, bringing his G50 with him) and the meetings, which were usually held around the end of January, ended up being the forerunner of the Barry Sheene Memorial, and were taken over by the PCRA. So your cause isn't unprecedented, but has never had much support. |
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rickkwok
Level 1 Member
New South Wales
3 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2009 : 7:48:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by john
Not sure about the hangups does not happen here, maybe it is the distance from melb to Sydney that is causing the problems, if the cable goes over the Blue Moutains it would be hardewr.
Otherwise the racing ideas are gr8, certainly post supp regs David will help you if need be.
Battle of the twins, can I have more details please?
Distance should be no object on the www anyhow, if it re-occurs I'll let you know.
Single Cylinder feature race will be open to single cylinder machines (2str & 4 str) 250cc - unlimited
Battle of the Twins feature race will be 2 strokes 250 - 400cc and 4 strokes 0 - unlimited
Cheers
Rick |
SR500 FE |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 09:20:02 AM
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| In about 1963, Just about every top A grader bought a TD1C Yamaha, and that spelt the end of the Manx Norton in any serious racing. Running older style four strokes in the same classes as two strokes and multis has always been a problem for the guys who were enthusiastic enough to keep the four strokes going. I suggest we'd do much better if the two TYPES of bike were never raced together. TT class for four stroke singles and twins - GP class for two strokes and multis. Then we could get down to some decent racing in good fair capacity classes. For the older style four strokes, year of manufacture isn't really an issue until we get to running fourvalve motors for the single cylinder bikes. When we race in 'periods' we must always end up with the procession where the leaders in a race lap the tailenders after about two laps. It makes racing which is impossible to promote, and get sponsors for. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 09:27:39 AM
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| GD66 thanks for the info. The G50 owned by Dave Woolsey is about the only bike I'd really like to race. They were the best ever British single cylinder machine ever made. The sad thing is that I've only ever seen two here in Australia. Most people won't pay the $30,000 to buy something for which there is no real class in historic racing. I tried to find the bike that Craig McDonald bought in Tassie all those years ago, but I believe it ended up with a Norton twin motor in it. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 09:34:00 AM
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| It would be interesting to compare Dave Woolsey's times at Phillip Island with Wayne Gardners on the Warmsley manx. I wouldn't have thought there would be much in it |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 5:17:08 PM
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Wayne Gardner 2008 Island Classic 1:49.63
Dave Woolsey 2009 Island Classic 1:55.95.
so around 6 seconds. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 8:08:51 PM
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| In the UK the premier classes for 500cc singles involve races for Seeley G50s and Walmsley/Molnar Manxes. Why do we have a problem getting these bikes together in the same races in Australia? It doesn't sound like Dave Woolsey would cause Wayne Gardner much grief at Phillip Island. Why is it that when I go to Phillip Island in January each year I see bikes which should be competing against each other, running in completely different races? 'Period' racing has nothing to do with history. It's a nonsense! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 9:27:52 PM
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Glen 20, we all know your view can you just now keep it to yourself.
We are racing the way we are because of decisions made years ago.
I dont need a constant reminder that you are the font of all knowleged, just let us work through things.
Your rantings are diverting the topic to such an extent nobody else is commenting.
Cna you just let somebody else get a word in.
Thanks |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 10:36:37 PM
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I do hope that Glen 20 and Alan C. get a room with one chair so they can talk about Seeleys. Someone please lock the door and throw away the key.
By the way huge weekend coming up soon at Broadford - new models on the road circuit and the MX + Enduro.
Nice Champions ride day on this Sunday.
Southern Classic on the horizon - lifes good! |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 09:18:52 AM
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| Patrick, a minute ago there was virtually no traffic on this forum. Is that situation preferable to you? |
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