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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Oct 2009 : 08:26:05 AM
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The first historic race in Victoria occurred at a Hartwell Club meeting in October 1973. It happened because of the enthusiasm od two VElocette Owners Club members who also belonged to Hartwell - Peter Lord, and Derel Pickard. The idea was ostensibly to preserve the older racing machines. The photo shows top A grader Steve Oszko (nearest) Strawb Thompson, Richard Bendell (MOTEC), Russell King is obscured, and I'm the one accelerating away while the rest are still pushing! From 1973 to 2003 I didn't race and neither has Russell King to this day. Prior to that time we both raced EVERY meeting!
Here's the photo:
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2009 : 08:38:06 AM
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| Neither Derek Pickard or Peter Lord had ever raced when they started historic racing in Victoria. Derek Pickard later tried racing a Villiers engined Greeves twostroke,got thrown down the track at Calder when it seized,and broke a few bones. The reality of racing deterred him, and he never raced again! Also interesting - I attended an early HMRAV meeting at Ringwood where people like Bob Maclennan and Dave Large were discussing how they could get members into historic racing - now they're running it. |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2009 : 09:43:44 AM
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| Can you remember when racing by period rather than by capacity first reared its ugly head? |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2009 : 08:51:26 AM
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| I believe that the 'period' concept was there from the earliest days of 'historic racing'. It certainly didn't exist before 1973! However I seem to remember Pickard mumbling something about the need for it, and he just 'wouldn't know' - he'd never raced, but the Velo club fellas were a bit like that - good on theory! The fact is that even when we only ever raced Allpowers C grade or B grade, our older bikes were totally outclassed by the Jap multis and twostrokes. Historic racing didn't change that, it made it worse. The situation with Rex etc. in P4 means that anyone with a sixties 750 fourstroke gets absolutely creamed. The bikes they're racing against are grossly overbored etc. The answer then is you buy one of Rex's bikes if you want to be competitive - not such a bad option. But if you look where P4 is going, we lose a lot of interesting bikes from the races. I'd rather be beaten by a 1990 750 fourstroke V twin than by a tricked up 1969 1100cc CB750! At least if the capacity is similar, I'd have a chance of winning. All due respect to Rex, his bikes are really beautiful, and a credit to him. But they outclass everything else in P4 because you cannot bore any British 750 over 920cc, and if you even try you'll blow them to the sh.thouse! If the racing becomes cross period and based on capacity, Rex's CB750/1100s will run with Z900s etc in a superbike class. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2009 : 08:56:23 AM
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| The only bike I've ever seen consistently beat Rex was Chris Curran's 750/900 Laverda SF. In the olden days Jim Eade brought one to Phillip Island and soundly beat Decker and Hone with their Z900s. So if you can find one you're in with a chance of beating Rex in Period 4! |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2009 : 10:53:47 AM
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It intrigues me that some club members had a good idea but then lost control and ownership of their idea.
It also intrigues me that the new owners of the idea have managed to set the rules in stone.
Even worse is that there are some who would seem to want to deny others the right to question these rules.
There are two factors in the evolution of our sport which seem to be ignored.
The first was the end of the 4 stroke era around 1969/70 and the other was the change from drum brakes to disc brakes.
Surely these differences have a far greater bearing on history than the sacred cow "year of manufacture".
Year of manufacture seems to be somewhat flexible, perhaps depending on modern commercial concepts of how rules can be bent but not actually broken.
There are many 30 odd year old bikes that are, by the "year of manufacture" rule, forced to race in categories that they don't belong in and yet it is possible to order a 2010 Vincent, Manx, 7R or G50 and have it backdated 50 years without a problem. I can only conclude that these models are the sacred cows that we are all expected to revere. Brittania rules the waves?
Surely it is time we gave serious thought to what our historic rules are supposed to achieve? Do they exist to protect Brittania from the Japanese invaders? Or are they supposed to encourage fair and equal competition on the race tracks?
Cheers, John |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2009 : 7:14:37 PM
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| I don't believe this...can we start that poll up again, David ? |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 07:31:54 AM
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| I don't have a problem with summerfield or molnar manxes. I think they're just the most beautiful bikes ever, and we should all be racing them. However if we are allowing them to race we should also allow Seeley frames with four valve Jawa speedway engines! There is a danger in moving more towards making historic racing a rich man's sport. It's always been 'how fast can you afford to go', but Barry Sheene's bike cost $90,000 to get it to Phillip Island a few years ago and that's ridiculous! |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 07:37:34 AM
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Surely it is time we gave serious thought to what our historic rules are supposed to achieve? Do they exist to protect Brittania from the Japanese invaders? Or are they supposed to encourage fair and equal competition on the race tracks?
John, Those are some interesting questions, and I'd have thought that after the love-fests at Tullamarine, and in Sydney this year, we might have moved to develop a mission and vision for historic racing? I suggest it's about time we thought about where our sport is going, and how it's going to get there! |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 07:40:12 AM
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| Those who would deny others the right to free speech do not deserve to have it themselves. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2009 : 07:47:52 AM
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| John, In every copy of Classic Racer I see Manx Nortons with a single disc! Strange rules over there in Pommie land? In the interests of safety perhaps we should also go that way? I swear I'll never again race a bike with a drum brake, they were the worst invention ever devised by man! (My collar bone is still dislocated from the last crash caused by one!) They are also a big deterrent for guys wanting to race period 3 - it's an upfront expense of $3000 for anything half decent! |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2009 : 07:31:27 AM
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'Those who would deny others the right to free speech do not deserve to have it themselves.'
Who did that? I suggest that since MA became corporatised, democratic input by competitors has diminished, but the mechanism is still there to allow it! |
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CB72
Level 2 Member
39 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2009 : 6:10:12 PM
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Racing was always a rich man's sport. Those of us that were not rich found ways to be creative and make things work better.
Back in the day I used to race my CB72 350 against guys with Manx Nortons and 7R AJS etc and if I rode well I beat them and if they rode better they beat me. I had power and they had brakes and handling and it pretty much evened out.
The guys that one were usually cheating or better riders or both. What has changed since those early days is the amount of money that some people are prepared to invest to win a $5 trophy.
I like to win as much as the next guy and as long as I believe I have a fair chance, I'll race. If too many people turn up with a Summerfield Manx or Chicken Fried Fred G50, then it's time to separate out the pukka GP bikes from those based on street bikes.
But let's remember that a fast rider on a good bike will always win and cheaters are loosers.
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