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Former Member
deleted
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2 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2003 : 8:11:07 PM
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Does anyone know where I can get some more information on where to get a McIntosh frame ? I have tried to contact Ken in NZ without success, and no one seems to know where I can get one in OZ. I am about to purchase a Katana 1100 and want to build up a McIntosh. Any help will be greatly received
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2003 : 8:26:24 PM
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About the best I can find is this contact:
HOLDEN MCINTOSH MOTORCYCLE SVC.
323 S Chinowth
Visalia, CA (209) 732-3112
Maybe a job for snail mail this... Seems there is no real supplier of them anymore.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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Former Member
deleted
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2 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2003 : 10:36:21 PM
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Thanks for the reply David
There must be something a little more local ! Trans Tasman agreement and all that. I will keep looking I guess, however I think I might also try the online Bikes for sale sites. Know of any good ones ? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2003 : 10:44:57 PM
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Wizard,
Someone around Wangaratta has a very nice McIntosh Suzuki. Everything is for sale if you've got the money.
I wouldn't worry too much about Period 5 eligibilty. You can certainly run it in BEARS, I wouldn't get too excited about P5, it's only recently been run at historic meetings. Better to get yourself something you really like, and worry about elgibilty when the guys complain about you beating them.
Keep advertising, you'll get one. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2003 : 12:33:49 PM
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| Its not really in the spirit of Historic racing encouraging people to race in eligible machines and waiting for others to put their money on the line to protest. I believe we all have an obligation to at least try and play fairly. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Former Member
deleted
63 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2003 : 6:51:57 PM
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I argree John
Remember the bun fight in NSW over the period 5 bikes and half the field have dropped out now, also the recent bitching about big bore Hondas in P4.
Get it right now then hopefully none of this will happen in future. |
TA |
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Former Member
deleted
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27 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2003 : 10:50:47 PM
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| I thought BEARS was originated to provide a racing class for all the brands that had become uncompetitive when the Japanese learned how to make a big bore handle |
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Former Member
deleted
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27 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2003 : 10:57:08 PM
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| the things that really annoy me about P5 is the lack of clarity in the rules, what events were run saw machines in either improved touring guise or Formula 1 which was vastly different allowing almost anything in frame and engine mods.So why doesn't the administrators of the sport make a stand! and then everyone can get on with building a legal machine in all states. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2003 : 11:14:34 AM
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Scott, BEARS means no jap stuff, so you the belief is you cant have a Jap donk in any frame machine, but I will check with BEARS direct on your behalf to confirm this point.
ROGER there is a counter argument that the rules are clear it is just that many try and distort them. Baic points such as "visually indistinguiable" has been interpreted to mean all other things, along with "manufactured within the period" gets bumped around. The major problem may be with the riders and lack of protesting. Get on to you club Secretary and raise some points.The other beauty is " I need to cheat because its a safety issue" just slow down like the rest of us and ride within the capability of the track and the machine. As you may know I ride sidecars, we dont have sidecar brakes on classic outfits in Victoria just because we want to brake harder. We start applying them earlier, just like in the olden days{ circa 1967} |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2003 : 7:41:59 PM
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John, I seem to remember talking to one of the BEARS guys, and he mentioned the Jap engined British bikes as being eligible for their class. It's about time we got on top of the eligibility issues for period 5 and 6. Part of the brawl between CAMS and Winton was over an extra fee charged to insure 'non-historic categories' at the recent car meeting. What was referred to was mid-eighties cars.
I sincerely believe that any racing car or motorcycle which is pre 89, is definitely historic. How many historic bikes do we have to lose to overseas buyers before we wake up and realise most of the TZ750s, and all of the H2Rs, most of the watercooled TR500s, and RG500s have gone already. You can't even buy a decent pre 79 TZ these days.
In 1973 when this thing stated Manxes were 11 years out of date. Period 5 ends at 1979 (24 years ago), let's move on! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2003 : 11:25:50 PM
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| I stand correctted on Jap motors in BEARS. I have spoken with the eligibility person Scott Brown. The use of Jap donks in recognized frame makers is permissible. The full list is listed at You must be logged in to see this link. go to events , Vic titles and read the list. Scott says from memory such machines are classified Formula 2. Bimotas are classed as F1. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2003 : 09:38:47 AM
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I strongly support the idea that any bike that runs in historic races should be 'eligible' for one of the historic periods, however that's where it ends. I agree with the comment about P5 being extended to 1983. That's a really good idea.
As far as the young guy with his Suzuki McIntosh is concerned - when I buy a bike I would hope it is eligible for one of the periods, however that wouldn't stop me from buying 'a good thing' if it wasn't eligible.
Does anyone know where there is an 0W01 Yamaha for sale? |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2003 : 09:44:32 AM
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| Incidently, I believe a genuine Suzuki McIntosh is worth buying if the price is right, regardless of anything that's happening in historic racing!! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2003 : 11:13:12 PM
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g'day gang,was the cutoff 1980 to benefit(protect) the earlier TZ's, reverse barrells came out the next year,totally "factory" motors not based on road motors cases?,maybe in hindsight no one thought about other options as none were racing at the time?,seems odd the previous periods end 62,72,must be a good reason for this 1980 cutoff,on the bears subject,Rickman honda's/kwaks,Egli Hondas/kwaks? a grey area?,surely they appeal to bears critera,i have seen rotax 4stroke singles in jap alloy beam frames at bear do's,my ten cents worth,Mick |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2003 : 11:51:35 AM
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Mick,
The 1962 cutoff date for Period 3 was brought in because that was the last year Manxes and G50s were in production. !972 was brought in because in 1973 RD350s and Z900s were available. Period 5 ends in 1979 because in 1980 exhaust port control was available in two strokes, and four valve Suzukis were available.
Running in Periods might be a good thing for championships, and it tends to keep some sort of originality in the bikes. However it hasn't promoted any sort of genuinesss in Period 3. We still see 750 Triumphs, and Nortons - Only the Atlas was over 650 in 1962 - some of the Period three bikes even run 850 Commando engines. There isn't one manx or G50 running which you would consider 'genuine and original'.
In the car racing fraternity, the story is much the same, but at least the cars look orignial. At Eastern Creek last meeting they ran tin tops and racing cars on the basis of lap times, not eligibility.
Perhaps we need to group motorcycles on the basis of lap times and capacity, rather than periods. I still believe that any bike racing in historic events should be fully eligible for one of the normal 'periods', even if only period 6.
Incidently, that Aerial with all the pipes and the 'luggage rack' on the back, shouldn't be allowed to run at any meeting. It really isn't in keeping with the spirit of historic racing - sorry guys!!
Best Regards, |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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David
Site Administrator
Australia
999 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2003 : 1:14:47 PM
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Alan,
How can you say this? Who do you get to ride the bike to confirm what is the bikes lap time?quote:
Originally posted by acotrel
At Eastern Creek last meeting they ran tin tops and racing cars on the basis of lap times, not eligibility.
Each rider rides different, that is why it is a race. If they all got graded on their lap times, then no one would turn up. After all, why would you want to turn if you know you are going to be beaten all the time.
Or what is to say that a rider doesn't go fast just to get placed lower, then on proper National Title race day, the rider shows his full speed.
The list goes on, but I feel the fairest way would be to rank on the bikes year and size not on a riders ability as they may be on a different bike the next month that was rated lower in the previous month. Or the rider was a bit more cautious they then get another ride on the bike that was faster before, but are then shown to be slow on the fast bike.
I am just saying that you can not rate a class on how fast a lap time is.
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Regards,
David
Webmaster & Owner of Classic Motorcycling Australia
Quote: I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted to be paid. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2003 : 8:19:05 PM
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| Qualifying times have been used to grade riders for several years. We all know what the lap records are at the main circuits. Some of us know what times Rex pulls at Winton. If you've got a bike and rider that runs within five seconds of him (plus or minus 2.5) you should be able to race him whatever period the bike is. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2003 : 04:18:17 AM
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Scott,
I don't know the YZF750SP. The reason I mentioned the 0W01 is that I believe it was the only production racer recently available from Yamaha, apart from two strokes. Is your YZF750SP a racer or a converted road bike? I'll have a look on the web for it.
The original cutoff date for Period 5 was 1979, my TZ350G used to be the last eligible TZ. Z900s offer a huge advantage over converted CB750s. The double overhead cams, and the fact that you can overbore to 1300cc really give a lead that you can't get from the Honda. In about 1974 I helped a rider get a Z900 going using Termignoni cams. His name was Craig Hemsworth, he was the fastest Z900 at Bathurst that year. He lost his licence for allowing the baffle in the exhaust to drop out on the start line.
I would point out that anyone racing a Z900 should be using petrol, so Rex would still have an advantage with his big Hondas, if ever they ran against him. |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
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1 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2003 : 9:15:47 PM
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i agree with scott the gsx powered mc intosh wasnot built until 1982 the br1 mcintosh (a replica of the bike that won bathurst) were not built until 1983 these are the bikes that race in p5 the cut off date for p5 is december 31 1980 visualy identical parts made out side the period are legal and this i belive is where the pro mcintosh people have a bit of a problem just because all three modles of this bike are painted in the same visualy identical red paint i do not think this is enough to let them race i dont understand you people scott is correct a replica of a bike that is not legal but has a vague similarity to a bike that was made in the period is not legal to the best of my understanding the difference between the 82 model and the 80 modle are engine, frame, fuel tank, faring and ducktail you dont have much mcintosh left do you ?
only the pure of heart can fight the just cause keep on fighting scott
mike
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Former Member
deleted
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3 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2003 : 10:03:35 AM
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| Did you guys know that the current Australian Champion in P5 is a suzuki McIntosh? As for finding a frame, Ken McIntosh won'tbuild any more of them, and they're thin on the ground. Good luck. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2003 : 08:15:17 AM
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I suggest there is no good reason to end P5 at 1980. If Stuart Loly can race a fairly standard 1100cc Suzuki, anyone should be able race a trick frame with the same engine, provided the frame is HISTORIC, and is important to the HISTORY of our sport. It would be a crying shame to lose all the McIntosh Suzukis to road going enthusiasts, just because someone already racing, might be beaten. Our kids might never see what the good guys rode in 1982.
As I said before, Rex runs alcohol, Stuart should be running petrol, and a guy with a McIntosh frame doesn't get much advantage. Personally I'd love to see them racing again!
I don't agree with people building new frames with modern geometry, to get a bit of advantage. When Doohan rode Sheene's FWD Manx the other day, the brakes scared him. Perhaps that's how it should be.
Best Regards,
Alan Cotterell |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
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Former Member
deleted
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3 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2003 : 1:08:45 PM
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in response to the comment that anyone can win on a "standard" gsx 1100, maybe you should have a closer look. Stuart Loly's bike is within the rules, but you couldn't say it was anything close to standard. 17" wheels off a late 90's GSXR, massive custom made brakes that never appeared on anything but factory bikes in the eighties, BIG slicks, braced frame, and everything cut off it that is humanly possible. When you look at the McIntosh in comparison, they have much much smaller brakes, they can't run slicks, so they have to use treaded tyres and they weigh almost 30kgs more.They are exactly as they were when they were raced in the 80's. Not taking anything away from Mr Loly though, you still have to be able to ride one, and he definately can do that. Unless you modify a McIntosh until it stops being a McIntosh, a well sorted gsx like Stuart's, will be a faster,
better race bike. |
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Former Member
deleted
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3 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2003 : 09:15:45 AM
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| I didn't know the Freeth bike was so light!! 198kg without fuel is the weight of the Mcintosh I know of. Might be time to get out the hacksaw....... |
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