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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Aug 2012 : 09:22:18 AM
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I got to thinking about historic racing and how it can't be captured and preserved.
I have heard people grumbling about bikes with unfair out of period parts etc.
Take Period 3 for example, this seems to be the purists period and it spans 1946 - 1962.
During this period the iconic Manx Norton changed dramatically, so much so that the extremes of the period produced totally different bikes only recognisable as family by the name on the tank.
The result being that no one would opt to race a 1946 model in preference to a 1962 model.
Does this not make a mockery of the notion of periods?
What it does is create a "type of bike" situation where the latest and greatest becomes the bike of choice if one wants to win races.
It is further exacerbated by the inclusion of modern replicas which have little in common with what they purport to replicate.
To me it begs the question what have history and periods got to do with it?
Precious little me thinks.
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125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 05:02:59 AM
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Throughout Australian road racing history the solo bikes have been modified to get better performance. When we start using modern technology in historic racing,such as the silicon chip on period 3 bikes - we have lost the plot. I've even seen a period 4 'historic' racer with full gokart electronics mounted on the top yoke for all to see.
The very first thing we need to do is to try and make the machines look authentic. The next thing is to set up the races to always accomodate the same TYPES of bike.
There are three main TYPES:
Superbikes
Two strokes/GP bikes.
Thunderbikes
Only an idiot would ride a thunderbike in a race where there are superbikes and two strokes, because of the technology differences and the fact that the racing lines are dangerously different.
I love two strokes, but I've just sold a good TZ350G for that reason. If I'd run it in period 5, there would be superbikes on the grid - that is not what TZs were intended for, they are too expensive for that. I would have loved to haverun it in a two stroke race with other two strokes of all periods, but that was never going to happen.
The mixed grid which now occurs in every race,both modern or historic, is crap.
The guys get paranoid about the effect of year of manufacture on tyre sizes, fuel etc. The biggest advantage is always due to machine type and capacity. A TZ250 (Sean Geronomi) held the lap record at Winton for about twenty years.
Lets us have all the same TYPES of bike in our races, and let's REALLY RACE ! :
Australian Classic Superbike Championship.
Australian Classic GP (two strokes and small multis)
Australian Classic TT (thunderbikes)
And run them in capacity classes with heats. All bikes to be logbooked in any (but at least one)historic period to ensure authenticity. If you ride an old bike, you wear the technology differences due to age. At least the races would look and sound right ! ! ! |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
Edited by - acotrel on 20 Aug 2012 05:25:58 AM |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2012 : 10:53:30 AM
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Alan,
I wish I had a dollar for each time I've seen you bang this particular drum.
For most people, having to grid their P5 350 or whatever with other bikes is simply a fact of life nowadays.
Unfortunately your gripes are falling mostly on deaf ears. I'm not sure what you propose is so much better than what we have now, but I would like to see it at least run as a feature race to gauge responses (being everyone else's not yours!!) |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 07:52:13 AM
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Back to the subject.
In another area we are discussing running P4 unit construction bikes with P3 bikes. It is my belief that there is less difference between these bikes than there is between a 1946 Manx and a 1962 model or between a 1962 model and a modern replica.
What we have is silhouette racing which has little or nothing to do with history. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 11:31:03 AM
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That's it! I'm off to race moderns!
Back to you John for a 'back to the subject' |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 3:40:38 PM
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| Ooooh. |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 7:13:14 PM
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Aaaaah |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2012 : 08:13:31 AM
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What's all this hooha about?
Historic racing?
It would be interesting to know what prompts people to choose their bikes.
I know what my reasons were (I'm an idiot) but I don't know what motivates other people.
Do we tend to opt for the bikes we knew when we were young?
Do we put ourselves into periods and advertise it through our bikes?
Is it an attempt to rekindle our youth?
Anyone care to comment? |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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acotrel
Advanced Member
Victoria
2147 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 04:57:49 AM
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Jason, I believe that with you it has always been about racing moderns. Historic racing is just cheaper ? Who were the top Australian riders 'in the era' - period 6, and what were they riding ? I can only think of the international riders, no home-grown heroes like Ron Toombs, Trevor Pound, Willing, Hansford, Sayle, Boulden, Atlee, Neill, Phillis, Campbell, Blake - all came out of the seventies and sixties. If there is to be historic period 6, surely there must be some 'history' to emulate ? Who did the big things in the period 6 era 1983 to 1992?
The biggest motorcycle road race meetings were in 1985, that is when history stopped and Australian road racing began to disappear up its own fundamental orifice . - (MA became a corporation) |
Is your machine authentic or merely eligible? |
Edited by - acotrel on 07 Sep 2012 05:24:00 AM |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 08:07:11 AM
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Alan, wow, you're telling me you can't think of any top Aussie riders in the P6 era?? !! ....
Historics are cheaper? Surely you jest? For the money I've spent I could have had 2 even 3 "modern" bikes and saved a lot of time. I don't prefer moderns at all but I have to admit they have some appeal at times, for a raft of reasons. |
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Alan
Forum Moderator
Western Australia
353 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 7:36:10 PM
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Gee Whizz, I hope Mick Doohan and Wayne Gardner dont visit this site I could rattle off another dozen or so but dont want to get the site bogged down with this nonsense.
As a matter of interest I have in recent years ridden Period 4 and Modern sidecars and by far the most expensive is in Period 4. However the people you meet and mix with along with the type of competition we have makes it all worth while, the ones on the sidelines should try it some time.
Alan Sidecar 21 WA |
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Topic |
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History V Periods
